First Floor Baseboard is not heating


  #1  
Old 10-15-17, 03:08 PM
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First Floor Baseboard is not heating

Hi,
Recently we finished basement and add baseboard heating to basement. Part of this process we made two zone, one for first floor and one for basement. Before that there was no zone valve since it is was only one zone but now we have two zone valve.

Basement heat is working fine and calling heat correct and heating up baseboard as expected but second zone heat is not working. When first time heat being called from second zone( First Floor), boiler turns on but it is turning off right after it reaching to boiler heating temp around 185F. Circular pump is turning on (Only one circular pump for entire boiler) but seems it is only moving colder water. Baseboards on first floor is not heating up.

Water Pressure in system is 20 PSI which is expected.

Here is what I have tried:
1) Turn on zone manually and opened zone valve to make sure water is moving. No luck
2) Tried to purge Air from zone to make sure water is moving and there is no air.

Can someone please help me to troubleshoot issue.

Note: Zone valve which was installed was old one. Not sure if that caused issue and it is not opening correctly.
Or I may not have removed air from system correctly. These are my doubts but not sure.

Thanks in Advance.
 
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Old 10-15-17, 03:15 PM
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Give us the step-by-step procedure you followed for removing air. Have you visually verified that the zone valve is opening?
 
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Old 10-16-17, 05:53 AM
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I followed below steps:
1) Turned off boiler.
2) Opened Zone Valve Manually, by pushing lever to right until it stays in right.
3) Opened purge valve and increased water pressure to full from pressure reducing valve.

I think process is correct but may be plumber did not install purge valve to correct position ? I believe ( I have to check) it is on supply side of boiler instead of return. Should it be on supply side or return side ? Before zone valve or after zone valve if it is on return side ?

I only checked if zone valve level was in free position while it was open. I did not open valve cover to see it moved position. I will check when I am there next time.
 
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Old 10-16-17, 06:50 AM
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I had a similar problem with two zones as you described. I ended up bleeding the system several times till water came out. You have to dislodge
the air bubble in the system. hope this helps
 
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Old 10-16-17, 11:08 AM
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Not a plus installing a used zone valve.... especially when you don't even know if it's any good.

A few pictures of your boiler and piping would be helpful here.
How-to-insert-pictures
 
  #6  
Old 10-17-17, 08:10 AM
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Pete,
I took some picture last night. one for Supply line and one for return line. I believe guy who added zone valve made a mistake and he added purge valve on supply lines instead of on return lines before zone valve. If I am not mistaken purge valve should be on return line before zone valve shown correct ?

Question: Should I add purge valve before zone valve on return line shown in picture ?. Do I have to remove zone valve and add it to supply line ? or I can leave it there. I have seen setup with zone valve being on supply line or return line.

Is this wrong setup causing me not able to purge air ?. Is this possible to purge air from system without making modification for time being until purge valve is installed ?

Please see picture.
 
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Last edited by mamin; 10-17-17 at 08:12 AM. Reason: add
  #7  
Old 10-17-17, 04:41 PM
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Purge valves must be installed on return line so you can remove air after circulating water through system.

ZV's can be on either supply or return. It makes no difference as long as they are installed with the arrow going in the direction of the flow. They only work one way.

You can install a purge valve on the return line above the ball valve. Between the ball valve and tee and isolate each zone before purging.

Purge with manually opened zone valve and system off. Do not purge with pump on.

Open 1 zone valve at a time when purging to allow water to go through. When done with 1 zone isolate that zone and open the other and repeat.
 
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Old 10-17-17, 05:42 PM
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See the red valve in the second photo? That is a flo-control valve, to prevent gravity flow and heat when the pump isn't running. The normal position for the operating lever is full clockwise. At full CCW, the valve (a lift-check valve) is jacked open (to allow gravity flow in an emergency with the pump inoperative). It's hard to say from the photo, but it appears to me that the lever is turned full CCW.
 
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Old 10-17-17, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Speed 30
See the red valve in the second photo? That is a flo-control valve, to prevent gravity flow and heat when the pump isn't running. The normal position for the operating lever is full clockwise. At full CCW, the valve (a lift-check valve) is jacked open (to allow gravity flow in an emergency with the pump inoperative). It's hard to say from the photo, but it appears to me that the lever is turned full CCW.
Mike Speed 30
Are you saying flo-control valve is open and it will allow water to go backward ?. As I understand flow control valve is to prevent water going backward.

Are you saying I should close it anti clockwise maximum possible ?
 
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Old 10-17-17, 05:51 PM
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Actually, you should be able to bleed air by flushing water either forward or backwards through the radiator. Don't run the pump, just jack up the system pressure, to say, 25 psi, and bleed via a hose submerged in a bucket, and observe the air bubbles.
 
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Old 10-17-17, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by spott
Purge valves must be installed on return line so you can remove air after circulating water through system.

ZV's can be on either supply or return. It makes no difference as long as they are installed with the arrow going in the direction of the flow. They only work one way.

You can install a purge valve on the return line above the ball valve. Between the ball valve and tee and isolate each zone before purging.

Purge with manually opened zone valve and system off. Do not purge with pump on.

Open 1 zone valve at a time when purging to allow water to go through. When done with 1 zone isolate that zone and open the other and repeat.
Spott,
Thank you very much for great insight. you are spot on. I will add one purge valve which will allow me to purge both ZV depends on which one I open it.

Plumber who installed is good but he was doing lots of other work and i think he completely did not realized in rush. Now he is busy and he cannot come back soon so I am going to tackle it
 
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Old 10-17-17, 05:55 PM
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Nothing to do with flow going backwards - the purpose of the flo-control valve is to prevent gravity flow in the forward direction when the pump isn't running.. The flow control valve lever should be fully CW, not "anti-CW," as you state.
 
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Old 10-18-17, 01:49 PM
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By the way, turning the operator fully clockwise does not "close" a flow control valve. It allows the lift-check to drop on its seat by gravity. The valve is thus checked to forward flow unless the pump is running and providing sufficient differential pressure to lift the check - gravity flow doesn't produce sufficient pressure to lift the check.

Turning the lever fully CCW positively jacks open the check. In that position, the check valve is defeated. If you're going to run the valve with the lever full CCW, then you might as well not have the flo-control valve at all.
 

Last edited by Mike Speed 30; 10-18-17 at 01:51 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 10-18-17, 04:32 PM
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In regards to your flocheck. It does look like it is open to a manual position but in your case it does not matter unless you have a tankless coil in your boiler which I doubt because it's gas and gas boilers generally do not come with a tankless coil.

I noticed it was open but did not see the need to mention it and confuse the issue since you have zone valves which are positive shutoffs and will not allow gravity hot water to enter the zones.

With the use of ZV's you do not need a flocheck. Only if you had separate pumps operating the zones would you need a flocheck.

Hope this helps a little.
 
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Old 10-18-17, 06:40 PM
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Finally I have installed Purge Valve where Spott recommended and when I turned on cold water inlet before PRV valve, no water going in anymore. Not sure what happened. I do know that cold water is coming in until 1/2" shut off valve before red Pressure Reducing valve(PRV) but it not moving forward. To check further, i removed expansion tank to see water is coming in or not but it is not. It seems PRV valve is bad. Can bad PRV valve do not allow water to move forward at all ?. Before I change it, I wanted to make sure it is indeed problem not something else.
 
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Old 10-23-17, 06:24 AM
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Replaced PRV Valve and viola..Everything is working. Apparently PRV valve was bad and it did not allow any water to move forward. It was 100% flow blocked from PRV valve.
 
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Old 10-23-17, 02:46 PM
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Most pressure reducing valves have a strainer threaded into the body of the valve. The strainer should be cleaned periodically. I suspect that your strainer was clogged.

For good measure, I have a wye-type strainer in the water line, ahead of the PRV. That strainer can be cleaned by blowing down. Also, I have whole-house filters on our city water supply - that helps reduce sediment.
 
 

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