Explain BB heater process to new guy?

What's up guys, first time here. Basically, I'm trying to remove a wall in my basement to open up the space more. However, there is a baseboard heater on the wall that I am trying to learn how to remove.

Some background information is that I have a hot water heater system (not steam). There are six zones (thermostats) on the boiler system itself, each with their respective supply and return pipes. I'm not sure if this leaves me with a mono flow or series system, if it even matters for removal?

So far, I know that I need to shut off the boiler by turning it off at the thermostat and circuit breaker. What comes next? Do I need to cut off water supply to the whole house, or just the boiler? Do I need to drain the boiler, or just cut off water supply to the specific zone I'm removing? How do I cut off the pipes at the source and allow those loops to drain? After unscrewing the BB itself, would I cut threw supply and return pipe with a hacksaw? If so, how would I proceed from there? By capping off or connecting to return pipe?

I know its a lot of information. If you could be as detailed as possible in your answers if willing to, it'd help me so much, even if you only explain one part of the process. I don't have any plans right now, as I'm just trying to educate myself here as much as possible. Thanks in advance guys. God bless.

 

Welcome to the forums.

Since you have 6 zones it is not a monoflow system. Each loop is a stand alone circuit.

You're removing a BB strip from the basement. Are there other strips on that same zone ?
If there are others.... you will need to join the two ends of the removed strip to maintain the integrity of the loop.

Usually provisions are not made to shut a single zone off for service. That means you would shut the water supply off to just the boiler.... not the whole house.

If you could post a few pictures of your boiler and piping setup we can offer more detailed help.

How-to-insert-pictures

 

Hey Pete,

Thanks for the reply and explanation of the setup. I've attached a few pictures. Any chance you can go into further detail on the removal process itself? Thanks in advance.

Edited: There is only one BB strip within that zone.

 

D,
First off I see 7 Taco ZV's and only 6 returns or am I mistaken.

As far as shutoffs go, you have one on every return line to be able to isolate and bleed that zone. Unfortunately they did not put shutoffs on the supply side in case of ZV replacement.

With all of those zones I'm guessing the basement has it's own zone.

The good news is if you just want to disconnect your baseboard or do anything else to that zone you CAN use your ZV as an isolation valve since it is 100% shutoff.

You do not have to do anything else except close your shutoff on the return side of that zone and turn off your t-stat so the zone valve cannot open. You may want to disconnect the wire on terminal #1 on that zone valve as a safety precaution which will interrupt the power from the stat in case someone turns it up by mistake.
With everything isolated you can then drain the zone for repairs.

You do not have to shut the rest of the system down or shut the boiler off or the main water feed if you do not want to. You can leave this like this as long as you want with no interruption to the rest of the system, even if it goes into winter or you can leave this, and eliminate for good if you no longer want it.


You have a nicely installed system except for the fact that you have no shutoffs on the supply before the zone valves in case they have to be replaced. Would make job so much easier.


Just my thoughts, hope this helps a little.

 

Thanks so much; this helped immensely. I just have a few clarifying questions.

One of those supply valves is connected to the water heater (not shown) which may be why there is only 6 returns, but not entirely sure.

Yes, I should've mentioned that the basement has its own zone. It's the second valve from the right. When you say "close your shutoff on the return side of that zone," does that mean simply turning the yellow switch there? And shutting off the thermostat will definitely ensure that the zone valve doesn't open while working on it?

Lastly, can you explain where/ what terminal 1 is? Is it just on the Taco ZVs or is it something else?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm just trying to learn as much about the process as possible to make it go as smoothly as possible. Thanks in advance!

 

Yes.... turn the yellow ball valve off.
Look at the side of the zone valve. You should see three wires on three screw terminals that are labeled 1, 2 and 3. Power to the wire on terminal 1 opens the valve.

I would recommend removing the base board heater and as much copper line as needed and then cap the ends of the pipe off. if you don't want to solder just get 3/4" shark bite caps. They just push on to a clean cut pipe with no burrs.

SharkBite-3-4-in-Brass-Push-to-Connect-End-Stop

 

To simplify further on what PJ explained #1 terminal is on zone valve only and is the TOP terminal.

 

Hmmmm..... top terminal ? The terminals are side by side.

 

Pete, unless they came out with a new design that I haven't seen yet, Taco ZV have terminals top to bottom.

I haven't bought one in a while but the ones in the pic are the top to bottom terminal valves.

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-571-...eat-Zone-Valve

 

Makes sense, thanks. To disconnect the wire, should I just unscrew that screw on that terminal #1 shown, and then pull out that wire? And is it easy to reconnect?

Also, I know this doesn't have to do with the project, but what does that switch to the left of the terminals do, for future reference?

As far as cutting the pipes, is there a specific union or point I should cut at?

Thanks for the idea with the SharkBait fitting. Can you explain specifically how to use this to connect the supply and the return pipes together? I've heard that just capping the supply pipe can lead to burst pipes, but I'm not entirely sure.

 

Just loosen the screw and remove the red wire and then just put it back on when needed. No need to take the screw all the way out.

Cut pipe at any convenient place on straight pipe. No joints or fittings.

No need to worry about freezing with no water in the zone after draining.

Silver lever is used for manually opening the valve when bleeding the zone or if the ZV head goes bad if you pull the handle down it will allow water to flow in that zone whenever any other zone calls, eliminating an emergency call until you can replace the head.

To join the pipe together you will need 2 couplings and another piece of pipe.

A thought on reconnecting the pipe. If you are not going to reuse your baseboard you can just cut the aluminum fins off and you'll be able to remove the brackets and casing and just leave the pipe. No draining of the zone unless you want to anyway. You do not have to cut pipe to drain.

 

 

Once you drain the zone and remove the baseboard there will be no water in the zone to freeze. By removing the #1 wire on the zone valve the t-stat is useless and will not activate the zone valve, even if it is turned up by mistake.

Personally, I would just cap the supply and return lines or both ends of the pipe where the baseboard was.

I have never used sharkbite fittings. I solder everything or use pex. People use sharkbite with good success though and it's a good option for the homeowner with limited experience with soldering.

If I were doing the job I would just solder 2 caps on the pipes for about a dollar vs 2 sharkbite end stops for about 12.00, but are easier for the diy because of no soldering.

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Elkhart-30630-3-4-Copper-Cap

http://www.supplyhouse.com/SharkBite...Stop-Lead-Free

If you go to the above site and type in sharkbite fittings you can see what is available.

Why I mentioned leaving the pipe was because you mentioned joining the 2 pipes back together again which would give you the same result as just removing the fins and casing.

 

Hey spott, sorry for the long delay, been away from home for the past week. I believe I just have one last set of questions before starting.

I actually took a look at starting the process today. Can you further explain how to drain the zone? Above, you mentioned using that you CAN use your ZV as an isolation valve. How do I do this, and what does this accomplish? Do I do this before attempting to drain? When I close the yellow ball valve on the basement return, the water completely stops flowing out but doesn't drain. I've already turned that blue dial on the return side to get an idea of how to drain it, but when I do the water never stops flowing, even though I've removed the terminal 1 wire and shut off tstat. Does this have to do with using the ZV as an isolation valve or am I missing a step? I haven't shut off the water to boiler or anything like that.

Can't thank you enough for helping a random guy like me out. This has helped a million times over and I'm pumped to be able to accomplish this this weekend. I'll let you know how it goes

 

D,
The zone valve can be used as an isolation valve because in its normal operating position (silver lever up) it is a 100% closed to the zone which is why it is the same as a ball valve. What this accomplishes is to stop the constant flow of water to that zone so it can be drained.

Next, to drain the zone you must close the yellow ball valve below the blue handle drain valve. This is to stop the water from feeding back into that zone from the boiler.

After you have done both of these things your zone is completely isolated from the system and can be drained safely without interrupting the rest of the system.

If you open the blue handle on the return side it must be done with the yellow ball valve closed or you will drain water from the boiler side causing the boiler to refill to replace the lost water and you will develop air problems. Make sure both the ZV and BALL VALVE are CLOSED before draining.

As far as closing the return and opening the blue handle and nothing comes out. You most likely have pulled a vacuum on that zone which is the same filling a straw with water and putting your finger over the top which holds the water in the straw until air is introduced to break the vacuum.

If you were draining baseboard above the basement it would be different because the water would drain by gravity. You must remember that in the basement your baseboard is lower than your drain and water DOES NOT flow up hill.

What you will have to do is cut your pipe at the baseboard which would be your lowest point and the water will drain there from the low points and if you open the blue drain you can drain the water from the pipe above the drain because by cutting the pipe you have broken the vacuum. You will basically drain from 2 areas to drain the zone.

As long as the ZV and ball valve are closed no additional water can enter. Depending on the length of the pipe in the zone you probably have about a gallon or so of water.

Hope this answers your questions.