Linux vs Windows


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Old 12-29-17, 03:11 PM
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Linux vs Windows

I've read that Linux is virtually immune to viruses. With this advantage, why does it have such a small market share?
 
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Old 12-29-17, 03:43 PM
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short answer. Because Windows is very user friendly by comparison. And windows has established itself as the defacto OS. True Linux is less prone to virus attacks, but that's mainly due to less popularity. Same for Apple computers. I would love to go to Linux and have tried on several occasions but there is always somethings that won't work or I can't figure out that windows just does. Plus, there are upteen flavors of Linux ans how does a newbie or just the casual user decided what to use. Where as Windows is not nearly as complicate as to what version you might want. Basically there is a home version and a Business version.

At one point I thought that Windows was beginning to morph to a near Linux or Unix type OS, but it has not materialized.
 
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Old 01-02-18, 09:09 AM
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Linux is virtually immune to viruses
Nope, not true. As Norm stated, it is simply not attacked as often due to the significantly lower number of people using it. If you want, download a version to a bootable flash drive and give it a shot. It's a good solution for some people but generally speaking, not for most.
 
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Old 01-20-18, 09:55 AM
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Linux is nowhere near primetime as a desktop OS. Yes, you can make it work. For some, it might even work "out of the box", but that's why it isn't represented very well in the desktop OS space. As others have stated, it's not the same target for viruses because there are less desktop users. Lay users are the best targets for malware because they are more likely to do some pretty stupid things that make propagating the malware pretty easy.
 
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Old 01-20-18, 10:29 AM
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Because Window fans keep spreading the info it is difficult to use. Some versions are easier to use then Windows. Check out PClinuxOS. Very easy to use or take on a test run without installing using a DVD or thumb drive.
 
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Old 01-21-18, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ray2047 View Post
Because Window fans keep spreading the info it is difficult to use. Some versions are easier to use then Windows. Check out PClinuxOS. Very easy to use or take on a test run without installing using a DVD or thumb drive.
Sure, until you run into driver issues with zero OEM support. And then of course, the fact that you will probably eventually need a piece of software that is not available for Linux.
 
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Old 01-21-18, 10:10 AM
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One of the problems with Linux is the lingo. Most people with minimum knowledge of Windows can at least understand basic concepts and general structure of the OS. This is most likely due to the fact that its the defacto OS. But then comes along Linux with a whole new set of names and line commands that are completely foreign to most people. Why not use similar or the same naming system as Windows? (Really what is a GRUB? As far as I'm concerned it a bug found in the ground.) And it's a must that you are able to do some things at the command line level. Not so with Windows. What bothers me is the slowness of the Linux community to make the OS install and operate with a complete GUI with almost everything being automatically configured like Windows does. True it's a non-profit endeavor but those who are avid about a project do not let profit get in the way.
 
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Old 01-21-18, 10:33 AM
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I wonder too about the Linux support. I tried PCLinuxOS the LiveCD version (I think it’s called LiveCD) where you run a trial version from a CD. I was pretty disappointed. I have a pretty standard setup with a typical Logitech Laser Mouse. The mouse speed was dreadfully slow. It was unusable.

I was able to find the interface to set mouse parameters, but I could not get the mouse to work properly. I was surprised that something so basic would not work out of the box. I though the PCLinuxOS LiveCD version was sort of like a showpiece (could be wrong).

So I went online to investigate the PCLinuxOS world and maybe get some help. It was bewildering. There seems to be clubs or cults or something all with their own special flavor of PCLinuxOS. It seemed to me the real problem was negotiating the Linux world trying to even find a starting place.

I found one PCLinuxOS forum where the discussion of topics was elevated to the level where informative comments such as these were made:

“You are a crackhead”

“You have no neurons”

Anyway, it just seems to me the real problem is to try and figure out what you are using and who out there could help. Not like Windows. If I have a Windows7 problem there are millions of users out there you can talk to.

Just my opinion!
 
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Old 01-21-18, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by zoesdad View Post
I wonder too about the Linux support. I tried PCLinuxOS the LiveCD version (I think it’s called LiveCD) where you run a trial version from a CD. I was pretty disappointed. I have a pretty standard setup with a typical Logitech Laser Mouse. The mouse speed was dreadfully slow. It was unusable.

I was able to find the interface to set mouse parameters, but I could not get the mouse to work properly. I was surprised that something so basic would not work out of the box. I though the PCLinuxOS LiveCD version was sort of like a showpiece (could be wrong).

So I went online to investigate the PCLinuxOS world and maybe get some help. It was bewildering. There seems to be clubs or cults or something all with their own special flavor of PCLinuxOS. It seemed to me the real problem was negotiating the Linux world trying to even find a starting place.

I found one PCLinuxOS forum where the discussion of topics was elevated to the level where informative comments such as these were made:

“You are a crackhead”

“You have no neurons”

Anyway, it just seems to me the real problem is to try and figure out what you are using and who out there could help. Not like Windows. If I have a Windows7 problem there are millions of users out there you can talk to.

Just my opinion!
Linux as a desktop OS is largely reserved for extreme cheapskates who want a "free OS" and nerds who have the time and desire to get things to work. The desktop versions of the OS, Ubuntu being a popular example, are pretty usable WHEN STUFF WORKS. When you run into a problem, and you will, you are on your own.

People that would be good candidates for Linux as a desktop OS have already identified themselves, and are probably already using it.

Now, if you wanted to learn something new, I would encourage people to give Linux a try. But if somebody said "hey, I need a desktop OS that "just works" the only things that I could recommend are Windows or MacOS.

Furthermore, don't expect Linux (as a desktop OS) to "gain steam". Increasingly, desktops and laptops are become "power user" devices. For day to day tasks, the trend is mobile (unfortunately).
 
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Old 01-23-18, 09:04 PM
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oguruma:
Sure, until you run into driver issues with zero OEM support.

It's only OEM if that device originally came loaded with the same flavor of Linux. Just because you have a freshly installed Linux on an old Windows box doesn't make it an OEM install.

If you want OE support for Linux, expect to buy something. "One throat to choke" support never comes free, regardless of the OS.


zoesdad:
I found one PCLinuxOS forum where the discussion of topics was elevated to the level where informative comments such as these were made:

“You are a crackhead”

“You have no neurons”

That's like saying the service at all Ford dealerships sucks because your local dealer's mechanic mocked you when you brought your Pinto in for a tune-up. The fact that the Mods at one Linux forum let the flaming get out of control doesn't mean that all Linux forums tolerate the practice.


oguruma:
For day to day tasks, the trend is mobile (unfortunately).

Mobile = Linux

In most cases anyway.

It's easier to define what Linux isn't than what it is, chiefly for three reasons.
1) Linux was created as a straight-up clone of UNIX.
2) By strict definition, what makes Linux Linux is the use of the official kernel provided by the Linux Kernel Organization. However, that kernel is open-source (under the GNU Public license), which allows users to modify it however they see fit. At which point the question becomes, is a Chevy small block still a Chevy engine if you put an Autolite (Ford) carburetor on it?
3) There's so much inbreeding between all the different UNIXes and Linuxes that differences -- if any -- can be nebulous.
You would never manage to get a majority of the "authorities" to agree where to draw any line of demarcation separating Linux from everything else so they settled on the umbrella term, "UNIX-like" (also styled *NIX or UN*X). You can't put all the *NIXes in any one pigeonhole, so "UNIX-like" is as good as it's going to get.

If you accept the substitution of "UNIX-like" for "Linux," then Linux includes Google's Android and Apple's (XNU-based) OSX and iOS. The firmware on your home WiFi router, cable modem or DSL modem, Playstation, GPS, personal music device (MP3 player), smartwatch, smartTV, TiVo (and most DVRs/PVRs), smart refrigerator, smart thermostat, or smart doggiedoor is Linux. And most everything you own with an LCD menu on it.

Twice as many video game consoles run on Linux as Windows, and three times as many devices with embedded operating systems (i.e., ABS brakes, washing machine controllers, burglar alarms, etc.). More than 40% of all servers run Linux, CERN's atom-smasher (the Large Hadron Collider) and all of the 500 most powerful supercomputers in existence (as of November 2017).

[[ Don't laugh at washing machine controllers. Those and traffic light timers were all that kept Intel out of receivership before they got their lucky break one being chosen for IBM's first personal computers.]]

The Micro$loth "Cloud" and many of Micro$loth's own file servers run on Linux.

From Wikipedia:


^^^^^ The OP's premise is in error ^^^^^

Linux does not have a "small market share." to the contrary, it has a substantial majority. This graph is from 2015 but the news has only got worse for Windows in the years since. Android alone outsells all M$ OSes and Linux presently makes up about 85% of the total marketplace.

The irony is that Micro$loth has an even more minuscule fraction of the handhelds market than Linux does of desktops. Worse still for M$, the desktop market has been shrinking for the past six years and smartphones sales today are triple what they were six years ago. In 2017 about eight smartphones were sold for each desktop PC and 99.6% of those smartphones were loaded with Linux. Smartphones already were the most numerous computing device in existence and their sales are forecast to continue increasing for the foreseeable future with 24% more expected to be sold in 2020 than than in 2017.

M$ has spent at least $14 billion in this decade trying to establish a toehold in the handhelds market and all they have to show for it is a big hole in their bank account. First they failed with an in-house device, and again in a partnership with Nokia that died on the vine without ever bearing fruit. Now they're scrambling to staunch the bleeding in the desktop market, because that't the only place where their dominance is as good as uncontested.

(TO BE CONTINUED [too many characters])
 
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Old 01-23-18, 09:15 PM
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(CONTINUED FROM ABOVE)

And the desktop market isn't in the crapper just because the youngsters prefer portable, it's also in the crapper because Micro$loth has lost its mojo. They haven't created a product since XP that people were enthusiastic about buying. In fact, 3.6% of Windows desktop PCs are still on XP, which is more than are on Vista and Windows 8.0 combined. And considering that about 75% of all PCs are bought by businesses, if we presume that they've all moved on from XP, that would mean that Micro$loth hasn't managed to budge in the neighborhood of 240 million home users from XP, despite they're being five new OSes further down the road. That's near as makes no difference a quarter of a billion PCs still on an OS that was "sunsetted" soon to be four years ago.

Part of the reason for that is XP had extraordinary market penetration. It did 80% of what 100% of users bought a PC for, and 100% of what 80% bought one for. XP was to OSes what Michael Jackson's "Thriller" album was to pop music. Once you've reached the top, there's nowhere to go but down. The last M$ release of XP was in 2010 (on netbooks) and some analysts say 2011 was the year of Peak PC. Coinicence? I'm not so sure.

And whatever OS is to follow Windows 10 is going to be subscription-based, meaning you'll have to make periodic payments to M$ to keep it running. Which I doubt will do any favors for the popularity of desktops (at least Windows-based ones).

All these handheld devices are what's driving wireless innovation. They're why we have 4G and why 5G is coming later this year. Handhelds also are driving eCommerce because since 2015 the majority of all Internet traffic originated from handhelds. For the last 12 months, Android by itself has been neck-and-neck with all of the Windows OSes combined for most numerous devices on the Internet. As of last month, Android held a slight lead, 40% to 36%. iOS was another (UNIX-like) 13% and OSX another (also UNIX-like) 6%. Straight-up Linux desktops made up a whopping 0.69%. Which makes for a combined (UNIX-like OS) total of 59.5% of all Internet traffic.

And the vast majority of these Linux-powered devices are using neither a firewall nor any antivirus. Which puts a whole new complexion on the question of whether Linux is more secure than Windows, because it can't be down to Linux being too obscure to attract attention.

If you want to know how truly safe a *NIX OS is, you should evaluate it with a firewall and antivirus in place, because you're already allowing Windows OSes that advantage. As is, it's not a level playing field. Antivirus and firewall apps do exist for every distro of Linux in existence, including Android. Most come with a firewall already installed but not enabled by default. Why? Because they're leaving it to their end users' discretion whether they're willing to accept the trade-off between the added security and the added administrative overhead and more restrictive access control. In addition to firewalls and antiviruses, there are high-security "hardened" distos, and some desktop distros have an optional security module available to provide a level of security Windows can't hope to match unless you leave it switched off off.



This predicament with handhelds driving the train probably always was just waiting for the technology to arise to support it because the standard model of the PC was always overkill. Only a tiny portion of PC users ever tapped into anything more than a small fraction of what the device is capable of. You don't need a quad-core 2.40 GHz slug and 16GB of DDR4 RAM merely to surf the web, read your email, check who's unfriended you on Fakebook and download the latest pirated movie or EP. But that's all the vast majority do with any regularity on their desktop PC. Only that tiny portion of PC users ever do anything that can't also be accomplished on a handheld. For the rest, using a contemporary desktop PC is like killing ants with a 30-lb sledgehammer. Which is precisely why Joe Sixpack is gravitating to handhelds. They fulfill all his computing needs but don't anchor him to a desk. So I hate to be the bearer of bad news but this "unfortunate trend" might not be a trend at all. It might be a glimpse of the future.

And all this money pouring in to the handheld segment can only further accelerate development, producing ever flashier 'toys,' so sales are likely to continue growing so long as consumer enthusiasm remains high. Market saturation is never likely to be a major factor -- at least until the rate of advancement tapers off -- because people just don't keep the same cellphone as long as they've been in the habit of keeping a same desktop PC. Which is a YUGE marketing advantage for smartphones. That and the fact that most people don't outright buy their phone anyway, so most think of it as "freebie" that comes with their wireless service.


However, I there is one Micro$loth innovation which I very much doubt the Linux world will ever manage to surpass: The Blue Screen of Death. Coming to a Windows near you, and sooner than you expect.



...One of the problems with Linux is the lingo....

...Why not use similar or the same naming system as Windows?...
Because (as I noted above) Linux was created as a clone of UNIX. And UNIX existed before Windows, or even MS-DOS. So in essence you're asking why UNIX didn't change its naming system to match something that wouldn't exist for another 15 years.

Linux does have a problem of its own making in the "cutesy" namings of the different applications, but that's a hereditary condition dating all the way back to the beginning. Linux was "born" in 1991, but initially it was only a kernel, not what the Windows world would recognize as an OS. The first person to put a serious dent in all the applications that Linus Torvald's kernel was lacking was Richard Stallman. About 10 years before Torvalds got started on Linux, Stallman already was writing his own UNIX-like OS, along with a battery of free tools and apps to run on it. He called his OS "GNU," which was a reflexive acronym for "GNU's Not Unix." And it's pronounced "GUH-noo." In fact, Stallman (and a good deal of his supporters) have always complained that Torvald's OS by rights should have been called GNU/Linux because without the GNU Project's contributions, Linux would have been a mere head without a body or legs. In fact, GRUB is one of Stallman's. The official name is GNU GRand Unified Bootloader.

Anyway, Torvalds perpetuated this 'light-hearted' approach when he chose a cartoon penguin (named "Tux") for his OS's trademark or mascot. The guys who create most of this stuff don't get paid for it so they figure at least they can name it so they get credit for it.

I would argue that the light-hearted feel about it is one of the reasons young people were so quick to adopt Android. Not stodgy and too frivolous for them old codgers to take seriously. Like picking a mascot that looks suspiciously like R2D2 (who never hurt nobody) with a coat of lime paint.



Plus, each new version of the OS is named after a different sweet treat: kitkat, lollopop, icecream, etc. And who doesn't like ice cream?


Speaking of Window's naming system ....

There is NO SUCH THING as a "front slash." The backslash (\) is a special circumstance of the slash (/), just like "woman" is a special circumstance of "man." Saying "front slash" is as nonsensical as saying "wowoman" to mean the male of the species under the premise that "wo" must be the opposite of "man," therefore "wo-wo-man" must be the opposite of "wo-man."

[/soapbox]
 
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Old 01-24-18, 05:43 AM
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I couldn't possibly read that whole thing. But I did read most of it. No argument from me.
BUT....It's not main stream for the everyday consumer, nor will it be at the current way it's marketed and supported. And yet it's being presented as an alternative to the everyday user who for whatever reason does not want Windows or a MAC.

Weather you agree or disagree, Windows is still the defacto OS among the day to day populace. Why? Because it's easy and will work with all makes of PC for Intel or AMD chips, and a person without any computer knowledge can install it and use it out of the box with little or no issues (nothing is perfect). Almost 100 percent of computer programs for everyday users will run on Windows without problem and/or need to "command line" install or set-up. As I said in my previous post, for good or bad, Windows does what it says it can do. Nothing more, nothing less. I was hoping Microsoft would morph into a UNIX type OS over time and hopefully the OS's would become one. But apparently they don't feel it's necessary as this time.

My point being, if Linux wants to be mainstream, then the developers need to up their game and make it "Windows" easy right out of the box. And cost wise I doubt has much to do with it. As long as it worked out of the box, I'm betting people would be willing to pay a fair price for it.


PS...Many Linux distros advertise the fact that it will run on older computers! It may run but not very well.
 

Last edited by Norm201; 01-24-18 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 01-25-18, 10:42 AM
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Well I feel really bad now, badmouthing PCLinuxOS because it did not work out of the box on my configuration, which is a typical configuration. My BAD!!! It DOES WORK.

Under “Configure Your Desktop” there is a dialogue box which allows you to change mouse parameters. My mouse speed/acceleration was extremely slow to the point of being unusable. So multiple times I changed the mouse acceleration and other parameters and gave it a try, but no change.

I gave it one more try yesterday and lo and behold the mouse acceleration and speed is fine. I can’t understand what happened before – UNLESS - I kept forgetting to click the APPLY button. I can’t believe I did that multiple times, but that may actually be what I did.

Setting up the mouse is an example of the kinds of differences you might see when using PCLinuxOS vs. Windows. Here are the default entries for the mouse parameters in PCLinuxOS KDE:

Ptr Acceleration = 2.0x
Ptr Threshold = 4 pixels
Double Click Interval = 400msec
Drag Start Time= 500msec
Drag Start distance = 4 pixels

This is at lower level than I think you normally see on Windows mouse setup, but the PCLinuxOS HELP for those choices is very good- although I had to set Ptr Acceleration to 5.0x and Ptr Threshold to 0(or 1) pixels for my mouse to be usable. That seems to be contradictory to what HELP explains and suggests, so you would think those settings would be terrible. But it works.

In contrast, my Windows7 setup for mouse movement has for “Pointer Speed” a slider (slow-fast) and Option buttons for “Pointer Acceleration” (none, low, med, high). Windows is easier here than PCLinuxOS. You can see PCLinuxOS is a little bit down in the weeds for this.

It looks like you get a ton of free software with this distro. You get Firefox as a browser and I have a slight problem with my web based mail (Comcast).The links from the Comcast home page seem to be ignored so I can’t get to my email page from there.

But if I get time I’ll chase down that problem and report back how much time it took fix (or work around) the problem using the PCLinuxOS avenues for help. Even though that’s just a sample size of one, it might be helpful.

The HELP information you can pull up that I’ve seen so far for most of the software seems pretty good.

To answer rstripe’s question from post#1, I would suggest try the PCLinuxOS KDE LiveCD and see if anything jumps out at you as to why someone would or would not prefer Windows to PCLinuxOS. You run off the CD and so you won’t hurt your system. But I think, as someone said earlier, the real test may be when there is a serious problem- can you get it fixed. I believe Ray is a long time user and I believe his perspective there would be valuable.
 
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Old 01-29-18, 01:56 PM
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Here is some information which I think may go to the answer for the question posted in post#1:
...................
I've read that Linux is virtually immune to viruses. With this advantage, why does it have such a small market share?
.....................
I created a new partition on my HD and installed PCLinuxOS KDE Plasma from the pclinuxos.com site on the new partition. I thus have a dual boot system: Windows7 and PCLinuxOS KDE.

Installing Linux is not as simple as clicking a DOWNLOAD button like with most of the Windows software, you are directed to “Mirrors”, or torrent, then told to click one for your area (e.g., USA), and then folders and files appear. You then drill down through folders and click the file that matches the .iso file for the OS you are interested in, pclinuxos64-kde5-2017.11.iso in this case – the .iso file indicated when you said you wanted PCLinuxOS KDE.

The download of the .iso file starts after the click, you choose Save File from a popup, and the download continues – but you get no progress reporting at all. But if you check the Download folder you will see a file growing with the file name pclinuxos64-kde5-2017.11.iso with the suffix PART, meaning partially downloaded file, and then the real target file pclinuxos64-kde5-2017.11.iso is also there but not yet growing.

If you continue to monitor the two file sizes you can eventually figure out that the download is complete and you now have the .iso file pclinuxos64-kde5-2017.11.iso and the PART file has disappeared. You then use the downloaded .iso file to burn a CD – and then boot the system with the CD and install the OS.

The reason I mention the process above in that detail is because I doubt that the common Windows user would be familiar with “Mirrors”, .iso files, torrent, and PART files, or know what was happening during the download process and when it was finished because absolutely nothing changes on the screen. The user also has to realize that the .iso file is used to create a new CD which is not explained on the pclinuxos.com site.

Booting from the new CD and installing the software requires very little input but I would say that it is not extremely clear about whether or not the new PCLinuxOS will actually be placed on the free partition. The term Free Space is in fact used, but IMHO from the language it is not exactly clear that the new OS will in fact go into the unused partition. However, it could be my comprehension problem.

When you boot up you see a Start Menu and desktop like Windows and you will see a lot of software listed. But you won’t find anything marked HELP anywhere. If you type help in the search box the Application “KDE Help Center” is launched and you see a nice Table of Contents (TOC).

But when you choose anything from the TOC you get an error message like this:

“the file or folder help:/kwrite/index.html does not exist”.

If you play around long enough you find that there is a program called Synaptic Package Manager which will list available packages to be installed for your installation. If you search the package names you can find the package name “kwrite-handbook”, install it, and then go back to the TOC and choose kwrite again. This time you get the information pages for that section. Good.

But look at another section in the TOC, for example in the TOC under”Internet” is knettach. Try to open that section and you get -

“the file or folder help:/knetattach/index.html does not exist”.

Go back into Synaptic Package Manager and try to find maybe some package name with the string knetattach that you could install. But no such luck this time. And so on.

If you ask people on the linux forums what’s up with this stuff they tell you that the installation doesn’t want to install bloat. (I thought omitting Help files to save disk space was a thing of the distant past. Maybe I’m wrong.)

Then why install the KDE Help Center with a TOC but no pages – AND – most troubling, no true links from the TOC so that at least via some process you can get the pages for that section? At least include some proper linkage that can even be used manually.

Some of the Applications do have a HELP choice and do show you some good help information. Others don’t. For example, Dolphin, the default File Manager has no HELP at all – yet Windows Explorer does.

Some Applications offer online help but when you click that button then you get an error message indicating no such file exists.

Anyway, my impression of PCLinuxOS so far is that there appears to be a lot of work that went into it, and it looks like possibly a lot of good software there, and kudos to the people, they are volunteers, but IMHO no way could this replace Windows on the desktop. Yet they claim it can on their website, so that’s why I mention that.

(I'm addressing desktop including laptop here)
 

Last edited by zoesdad; 01-29-18 at 03:14 PM. Reason: typos
 

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