Replacing a pier without removing the post.

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Old 04-28-16, 03:53 PM
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Replacing a pier without removing the post.

Previous owner built a partially covered deck and supported most of the deck with perimiter posts and piers but the covered section was supported by the concrete slab from the walk out basement.

The patchwork of concrete supporting the piers is tilting under the weight and now the corner 20 foot tall post is slowly sinking. I bought some post jacks to re level it and it lifted it off the slab by about 1.5 inches.

I plan to tear up the concrete and dig a new hole around the post (what a pain that will be) and place the proper pier. I'm trying to figure out how I am to slide the Simpson post base between the post and the concrete. Do you just smash it into the soft concrete and lift it up to the post, attach with nails and them lower the deck to the desired depth and pack the rest of the concrete around and underneath it? It sounds easy enough.

Is there a maximum level I could extend the pier above the ground? I though about cutting off two or three feet of the wooden post to make room for my post hole digger. Name:  IMG_8031.jpg
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Old 04-28-16, 04:35 PM
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No smashing please. It's not that hard to remove & replace or reuse the post. Install temporary supports on each side of the post. That would be posts between the ground & the first level & posts between the first & second levels.
 
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Old 04-28-16, 04:36 PM
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I think both are good ideas, the post base and the footing. I don't see anything wrong with the footing being higher, in fact it would look nice finished with stone or something.

I'm a little worried about how much weight is on the corner post, it looks like a lot. I'd like to see a temporary wall there instead of just posts, but I'm not there to see it.
 
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Old 04-28-16, 04:38 PM
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Instead of cutting the post off and making it much higher, (i'd go maybe 6" above grade) I would suggest you make the hole larger in diameter so that your post hole digger will fit along side. Pour a large footing in the bottom first... maybe 24" x 8" (this will spread the weight of the pier over a larger area) then set some rebar and your 8" or 12" sonotube into the wet concrete and center it and plumb it. After the footing has set up, attach a Simpson epb66 cement post base to the post so that it hangs down into the sonotube, then fill the sonotube with concrete.

If you don't put a large footer under the pier, it will eventually do the same thing as your patio slab did.

Also, it looks like you should turn your 4x4 and your posts 90 degrees. The load bearing side with the weight of the roof bearing on it looks to be the side with the gutter... so that is more importantly what you need to raise. The floor is already supported by the 2 columns and will automatically go up as you raise the wall that's parallel to the gutter.
 
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Old 04-28-16, 06:32 PM
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Great ideas here! Thanks all. The post is a 18 foot long 6x6 cedar thats notched in the corner for the rim joist and side joist and it looks like it would be a pain to remove and very hard to lift back into position but wow that would make digging the hole simple. I will definitely create a footing. I was initially going to dig 1 food deeper then code requires but I think your saying to spread the load out wider instead of deeper. Brian I have two of those tapco jack posts supporting a 4x4 as a temporary beam on that corner with the jack posts centered on the joist as well. I hope it's strong enough to hold it till corrected. I have three more like this to fix.. to top it off on the other side of the house they attached a ledger board to a cantilevered bay window that is pulling it down as well. It's all ceder and we love it. I can't see tearing it down to start fresh. $$$. I would like to change the framing with 4x12 beams and all new footings and make it completely self standing but I don't know how to cut off those posts that go all the way up to the roof and still keep it supported. I think it might be worth it to have an engineer look at it. There are deck repair companies in the area. Maybe I could pay them for a consult but I'd really like to do it myself.

Thanks for the advice. I'm sure I will be bugging you for more advice soon.
 
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Old 04-28-16, 07:17 PM
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See Figure 35 for how to properly frame around a bow/bay window.

http://www.awc.org/pdf/codes-standar...Guide-1405.pdf
 
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Old 04-29-16, 07:40 AM
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Another question about that 18 ft long post. If I replace the perimeter supporting post with a post and beam support can I just cut that post off at the bottom to make flush? it's corner notched. It just looks like there's not enough purchase to hold up the roof. the other posts holding the roof up are just notched on one side so I am confident I could cut them off flush without integrity problems.
 
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Old 04-29-16, 10:18 AM
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If the posts are cut flush with the botton of the framing, you will introduce sway that you didnt have before. All the posts would need gussets. Your concern about notching is unwarranted.
 
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Old 05-01-16, 06:13 PM
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To my surprise there is a pier under the concrete slab. It has sunk so it needs to go anyway. I have beat the hell out of it with a sledgehammer and it's laughing at me so do you think the small jackhammer like this...Name:  Small JH.jpg
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or go big?...Name:  large jh.jpg
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This is the target.Name:  IMGr_8048.jpg
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I know the big one will do the job but if it's overkill I know those things are not easy to use.
 
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Old 05-01-16, 06:16 PM
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You will be doing a lot of digging. A chain and a skid loader would be my preference. Once you dig around it so you can hook a chain around it, you would use the hydraulics of the bucket to yank it up and out.
 
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Old 05-11-16, 02:52 PM
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Can I pour a 18 diameter by 6 in thick footing and place a rebar in it and finish up pouring the rest tomorrow? Will it bond or does it even matter? I'm exhausted but have wouldn't mind getting some of it done tonight.
 
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Old 05-11-16, 03:15 PM
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You might want it a little thicker than 6"... maybe 8". And yes, if i was going to do it, i would bend about 3 pc of rebar into an L (maybe 3" on the short leg and then the long leg should be long enough to stick up so that they will be a few inches below the top of your sonotube.) These 3 pieces of rebar would be placed to form a triangle about 5x5x5 when you look down on them from above. You can bend a short piece of rebar to make a triangle, then use wire to tie the 3 L-shaped pieces of rebar to the inside of the triangle. One triangle tied down low, one up high. Point the short legs of the L outward, make a rebar circle and tie that onto the legs... then drop that whole thing into your footing... embedding that circle of rebar roughly halfway down into the footing. Then I would put the sonotube over that... and push it down lightly into the footing to secure it... only 1/2" or so is good. Don't forget to center the sonotube under your 6x6 with a plumb bob and set the sonotube so it is plumb. (Not like the leaning tower of Pisa). Might help to screw a couple boards to the sides of it and let them lay across your hole to stabilize it.
 
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