How were casement windows installed?


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Old 11-10-22, 02:15 PM
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How were casement windows installed?

In a house built in 1955 there are steel casement windows, the kind that crank out to open. The house is stuccoed on the outside. The stucco turns in to meet the flange of the window. If I cut the stucco off will I expose the nailing flange of these windows or are the windows screwed or other wise fastened to the studs from inside?
 
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Old 11-10-22, 03:27 PM
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Steel casements were usually pella's.. at least around here. They kind of have a flange, with slotted screw heads exposed around the perimeter of the frame. After 20 coats of paint they just look like bumps. Some might also have nail straps on the inside perimeter. A closeup photo from the outside sill might be helpful.
 
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Old 11-12-22, 12:00 PM
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I am green at attachments.
The first picture is the window. My client wants this stuccoed over.
The other pictures show that the stucco dubs into the window frame. In order to stucco this I will have to cut the stucco back to where it is flat.
The client wants to leave the window. Notice that it is framed and covered on the inside. If there are screws through the sides of the frame I will not be able to access them. If this is attached only through the flange behind the stucco and comes out when I cut the stucco, that is acceptable. It will make lathing it easier.
So what will I probably find when I cut the stucco?
 
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Old 11-12-22, 01:08 PM
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Hard telling. But you will know once you cut the stucco out!

Cali has a lot more stucco homes than we do here where I live so that process is pretty foreign to me. But if I had to guess, I'd say that it's more likely that the windows are held by stud straps on the inside and out. I don't really see a nailing flange, and I don't see the screw heads that I imagined I would see, although they could have stuccoed over the top of them on the top and sides.

Do you know for a fact that these walls are wood framed (2x4 or 2x6) or could the walls be masonry / block?

At any rate, I don't see how you could "leave the window"... at least not entirely. The hinges and sill nose protrude too far don't they? At a minimum, I'd use a grinder or sawzall to cut the hinges and sill nose off. Leave the masterframe and sashes if you can. That would surely get you back to a surface that would be practically flat with the sheathing, making it easier to sheet over.

If you find that the entire window will come out easily once you tear the stucco back, I would definitely go that route! Break the glass if you have to. Just put plywood or a drop cloth down first. If it doesn't come out easily, its not too hard or time consuming to tear tear out. Make 2 cuts through the sill with a sawzall to remove the bulk of the sill. Then cut the sides and top in the middle. The whole thing should collapse fairly easily. Use long Milwaukee Torch blades in a sawzall.
 
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Old 11-12-22, 06:07 PM
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Yes, I figure on cutting back the sill and cutting off the hinges. If I get this job I will tell you what I find and what I do. Once I get it where I can make it flat, the stucco is the easy part. This is frame construction and in this era the house was framed, 18 ga (usually) wire was stretched around the house about every 8”, then paper and woven wire lath were installed, then three coats of stucco. Lots of diagonal wind bracing was used but no sheathing, It’s not done that way now for seismic reasons. There is still some open framing in some instances only now the line wire is incorporated in the paper backed woven wire lath.
 
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Old 04-28-23, 11:10 AM
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It disappoints me when we advise people what and how to do it then we seldom hear how it went.
So better late than never: I still don't know for sure how the window is fastened. There might be a flange but when I cut the stucco out around the window I purposely left as much of the woven wire lath in place as I could and left the moisture resistant paper intact. So I suspect the window is screwed to the studs at the sides through the body of the window but it could be through the flange. I installed moisture resistant paper, some additional support for diamond mesh metal lath then scratched, browned and finished the window flush with the surrounding wall. It worked just fine. I had occasion to see this job s few months after I did it and after the stucco had time to cure and dry and I even matched the color of the painted stucco with the new stucco finish




.
 
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Old 04-28-23, 11:25 AM
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If there are no screws on the outside (as in wood framed houses) then there are likely straps on the inside that are fastened to the framing or masonry.

looks like a nightmare. Glad I'm not doing that sort of window replacement!
 
 

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