replacing old 2 wire system

Reply

  #1  
Old 11-10-16, 06:01 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: usa
Posts: 10
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
replacing old 2 wire system

I own a home built in 1963 with a 2 wire electrical system.I have added a large room to the house and plan a complete room by room renovation.The large room i have added is the planned starting point for rewiring the house.I want to put a new panel in this room.my existing panel is on the outside of the house the meter pan is part of the panel.How do i power up the new panel from the existing meter pan/panel? I live in the home so i need the existing panel until the remodel is complete and each room has been rewired to the new panel
 
  #2  
Old 11-10-16, 06:14 PM
CasualJoe's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 10,758
Received 97 Votes on 87 Posts
I own a home built in 1963 with a 2 wire electrical system
Does that mean you just have a 120 volt service to your house?

Considering the service is over 50 years old I would start with an entire new 120/240 volt service.
 
  #3  
Old 11-10-16, 06:27 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,583
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
Or do you mean you have ungrounded receptacles? How many wires come from the pole two or three. Even in the 60's they were installing 120/240 service.

Can you post a picture of your breaker or fuse box with the inside cover removed? http://www.doityourself.com/forum/li...rt-images.html
 
  #4  
Old 11-11-16, 07:31 AM
A
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 4,285
Received 109 Votes on 101 Posts
You can upgrade the wiring in the rest of the house piecemeal at your leisure, that part is not mandatory to wire up the new room.

You need to do a load analysis (guidelines in the NEC) to find out whether you need to replace your existing main panel. If all the breaker slots in the main panel are occupied, you might also consider replacing the main panel.

Replacing the main panel is best considered a separate project from wiring up the new room.

Typically you would run a fat cable (probably #6 gauge but you need to do calculations) from the main panel to the new panel (subpanel) you are putting in the new room. Then regular cables (#12 and/or #14) from the subpanel to the lights and receptacles.

If you did not need to replace the main panel, you would feed the fat cable into that and connect it to a new pair of branch circuit breakers inside, 50 amp rating for #6 conductors.

None of the existing circuits that lack ground wires may be extended or added onto, say, to reach the new room.
 
  #5  
Old 11-13-16, 11:21 AM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: usa
Posts: 10
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
the house has 120/240 but the existing 50 year old wiring does not have the 3rd ground wire.allen j sounds like what i want to do.bring power to the new panel from the existing meter pan/panel and go room to room as i remodel.The first room i am tackling is my new kitchen and want an abundance of 110 recptacles.i plan to put 4 gang recepticales.Do each of the 4 gangs i install require there own 20 amp breaker? would it be better to use 10ga rather than 12ga wire?
 
  #6  
Old 11-13-16, 12:29 PM
Handyone's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: U.S.
Posts: 5,450
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Is there a reason you don't want to move your main panel to the new large room now?

This would make sense to me. The new main panel would be feeding the kitchen and all other new circuits.
The existing main panel could be used as a junction box to feed all your old circuits until the cables are eventually abandoned.
 
  #7  
Old 11-13-16, 04:31 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: usa
Posts: 10
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
This is my existing main panel.

Name:  IMG_1309.jpg
Views: 119
Size:  45.2 KB

Name:  IMG_1311.jpg
Views: 114
Size:  44.9 KB

the location of the new panel is on the other side of my house.I do not know how to move the meter pan to the new location. the eletric company will not bring the power cables over my home to the new location.I am thinking i have to leave the main where it is. i am not sure of this though thats why i am searching for advice here
 

Last edited by ray2047; 11-13-16 at 05:37 PM. Reason: Rotate images.
  #8  
Old 11-13-16, 04:50 PM
Handyone's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: U.S.
Posts: 5,450
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I am thinking i have to leave the main where it is.
You are correct. The power companies, at least here, are not flexible in the location of a panel.

I would add a circuit (if possible) to satisfy the inspector for the new room only, then upgrade the panel later for the kitchen and everything else.
The subpanel in the new room is OK, but it would be more appropriate for an attached garage versus rewiring the whole house.
 
  #9  
Old 11-13-16, 06:06 PM
F
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,495
Received 36 Votes on 28 Posts
...but there are more than six breakers.
I see six two-pole circuit breakers. Or possibly six pairs of handle-tied circuit breakers, either is acceptable under the "six throw" rule.
 
  #10  
Old 11-13-16, 06:17 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: usa
Posts: 10
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
could i piggyback cables to the meter pan to power the new box until i rewire the house then replace the existing main with a meter pan only? meaning i would have the meter seperate from the breaker box.
 
  #11  
Old 11-13-16, 07:41 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,583
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
Or possibly six pairs of handle-tied circuit breakers
My mistake. I didn't look at the wire colors. Thanks for the correction. I deleted my post.
 
  #12  
Old 11-13-16, 07:45 PM
ray2047's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,583
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
could i piggyback cables to the meter pan to power the new box
Most meter pans are rated for only one wire per lug.
 
  #13  
Old 11-13-16, 07:50 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 15,218
Received 103 Votes on 89 Posts
The white pipe on the right is for plumbing usage, not electrical.
 
  #14  
Old 11-14-16, 11:30 AM
Z
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 5,548
Received 157 Votes on 139 Posts
If it were me, I would do the upgrade like this:

1) Install your new panel in a good location.
2) Run a new 100A or 200A feeder cable (conductor size TBD) from the meter location to your new panel. (inside the house or outside in conduit)
3) Have an electrician in to replace your service entry drop (wires going up the side of the house to the POCO drop), meter/disconnect with 6 (or more) circuits in it.
4) Connect your new panel to this new meter/disconnect
5) Upgrade circuits in the house as needed moving them to your new panel.

You'll need a disconnect at the meter regardless because your main panel won't be close to the meter. You can limit the number of circuits at your meter panel if you want by rewiring those loads to your new panel - but it really doesn't matter.
 
  #15  
Old 11-14-16, 12:04 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 60,788
Received 1,327 Votes on 1,226 Posts
There are six 240v circuits in that panel. Looks like pretty heavy wire to some.

Are there multiple sub panels now ?
Do you know what all six circuits are ?

Name:  pan.jpg
Views: 146
Size:  39.8 KB
 
  #16  
Old 11-14-16, 05:49 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: usa
Posts: 10
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
yes i know where all six go.there is one small sub panel in the house and it powers all the 110 service in the house.the six breakers in the main carry all the 220 for the house.one of the 6 feed the 110 sub panel.I believe zorfdt and allen j are telling me the same thing.the new panel is 30 feet away from the existing main Name:  IMG_1313.jpg
Views: 85
Size:  29.3 KB
 

Last edited by therigwelder; 11-14-16 at 06:31 PM.
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: