One Light on 3-way Keeps Going Out
#1
05-16-17, 05:29 AM
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One Light on 3-way Keeps Going Out
Morning!
I have two LED lights, same make/model, on a 3-way switch. One of them keeps going out (I've gone through 3). Do you see anything wrong with the wiring on the switches?
Switch #1 - Left switch controls porch lights, right switch is 3-way. 3-way was added new, left switch was existing. No issues prior to addition of 3-way.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psduu9zydd.jpg
Switch #2 - Left switch controls a totally different 3-way, which isn't having issues. Right switch is the 3-way linking with Switch #1 above and having the issue. This entire box/switch/etc. is new.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psodbppwy6.jpg
I have two LED lights, same make/model, on a 3-way switch. One of them keeps going out (I've gone through 3). Do you see anything wrong with the wiring on the switches?
Switch #1 - Left switch controls porch lights, right switch is 3-way. 3-way was added new, left switch was existing. No issues prior to addition of 3-way.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psduu9zydd.jpg
Switch #2 - Left switch controls a totally different 3-way, which isn't having issues. Right switch is the 3-way linking with Switch #1 above and having the issue. This entire box/switch/etc. is new.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psodbppwy6.jpg
#2
05-16-17, 05:40 AM
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There is little that you could do wrong wiring the 3 way switches that would cause shortened life of one of the lamps on the circuit. Problem more likely to be thermal issue where the lamp in one fixture is getting too hot. Could be a bad socket generating extra heat, or orientation of the lamp/fixture.
You say the two LED's are same make and model. Are they the same fixture or just the same type of LED lamp? Tell us more about the light fixtures.
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...-pictures.html
You say the two LED's are same make and model. Are they the same fixture or just the same type of LED lamp? Tell us more about the light fixtures.
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...-pictures.html
#3
05-16-17, 06:41 AM
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Thanks for the swift response.
These are the lights. Same fixture, same everything, it's a two-pack. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Project-Sou...ight/999918964
If the wiring looks good, a couple other issues I could see causing one light to keep going out:
1 - Switch #1 - When I turn on the two front porch lights they turn on dim and then seem to go back and forth turning on and off.
2 - Switch #2 - The second 3-way that isn't causing me any issues, but shares the same 2-gang as the 3-way that is giving me issues, is on different circuit breaker and each of these breakers are on opposite poles. They're both on 15A breakers.
These are the lights. Same fixture, same everything, it's a two-pack. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Project-Sou...ight/999918964
If the wiring looks good, a couple other issues I could see causing one light to keep going out:
1 - Switch #1 - When I turn on the two front porch lights they turn on dim and then seem to go back and forth turning on and off.
2 - Switch #2 - The second 3-way that isn't causing me any issues, but shares the same 2-gang as the 3-way that is giving me issues, is on different circuit breaker and each of these breakers are on opposite poles. They're both on 15A breakers.
#4
05-16-17, 07:30 AM
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It sounds like switch 1 has either a bad switch or a dimmer in the circuit at one of the switches.
#5
05-16-17, 07:31 AM
Lots possibly wrong with the way the right switch in the first picture seems to be connected. Back stabs should never be used because they are unreliable. You should have only one wire under a screw. The connection may intermitent because of the way it is made. When you have more than one wire you need to pigtail them to the switch. The white wire on that switch also needs to be moved to the screw. I can't say for sure if that is the problem but it needs to be cleaned up to see if it eliminates the blinking.
#6
05-16-17, 07:52 AM
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It sounds like switch 1 has either a bad switch or a dimmer in the circuit at one of the switches.
Lots wrong with the way the left switch in the first picture seems to be connected. Back stabs should never be used because they are unreliable. You should have only one wire under a screw. The connection may intermitent because of the way it is made. When you have more than one wire you need to pigtail them to the switch.
#10
05-16-17, 09:15 AM
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Thanks, Ray! For next steps, would you agree with the following:
Step 1 - Remediate wires and establish pigtail.
Step 2 - Replace light - monitor for any outages.
Step 3 - If outages - consider replacing the rocker switches
Anything else I should do prior to attempting replacing the light (this is my fourth light :-) )
Step 1 - Remediate wires and establish pigtail.
Step 2 - Replace light - monitor for any outages.
Step 3 - If outages - consider replacing the rocker switches
Anything else I should do prior to attempting replacing the light (this is my fourth light :-) )
#12
05-16-17, 10:57 AM
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Not part of your problem but to make work easier cut the cable sleeve back like in picture 1. You should have at least 6 inches of wire to work with.
#13
05-22-17, 03:00 AM
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Did some testing over the weekend and also had a question, if you wouldn't mind.
1 - When using Switch #2 (http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psodbppwy6.jpg) if I turn the left rocker on/off it seemingly affects one of the lights controlled by the rocker on the right. For example, if the switch on the right is turned on and then I turn on/off the switch on the left the lights controlled by the rocker on the right flicker. The same light I had problems with above is the one that flickers ... shortly thereafter it goes out. Thoughts?
Also, as mentioned previously, when I turn on the left rocker of Switch #1 (http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psduu9zydd.jpg) the porch lights go on 50% dim or so and then the lights go back and forth being bright/dim. Could this theoretically be mitigated through pigtailing the right rocker of Switch #1? If so, how? I am not an electrician so I don't understand how this would technically work.
Thanks in advance for your assistance and patience!
1 - When using Switch #2 (http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psodbppwy6.jpg) if I turn the left rocker on/off it seemingly affects one of the lights controlled by the rocker on the right. For example, if the switch on the right is turned on and then I turn on/off the switch on the left the lights controlled by the rocker on the right flicker. The same light I had problems with above is the one that flickers ... shortly thereafter it goes out. Thoughts?
Also, as mentioned previously, when I turn on the left rocker of Switch #1 (http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psduu9zydd.jpg) the porch lights go on 50% dim or so and then the lights go back and forth being bright/dim. Could this theoretically be mitigated through pigtailing the right rocker of Switch #1? If so, how? I am not an electrician so I don't understand how this would technically work.
Thanks in advance for your assistance and patience!
#15
05-22-17, 05:13 AM
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Thanks, Ray. The previous electrician came back and spent ~8 hours checking all the connections to the rockers, lights, etc. Do you think this could be a panel issue?
We have bad experiences send techs on a wild goose chase ... usually ends up costing us quite a bit of $$. That said, previous to the three-way being added to Switch #1 and #2, we had no issues. What's more perplexing is the other light on the same three-way is having no issues, it's only 1 of the 2 lights.
We have bad experiences send techs on a wild goose chase ... usually ends up costing us quite a bit of $$. That said, previous to the three-way being added to Switch #1 and #2, we had no issues. What's more perplexing is the other light on the same three-way is having no issues, it's only 1 of the 2 lights.
#16
05-22-17, 06:01 AM
Do you think this could be a panel issue?
The previous electrician came back and spent ~8 hours checking all the connections to the rockers, lights, etc.
#17
05-22-17, 06:57 AM
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Thanks, Ray.
This is the 2-gang with two different 3-ways. Right rocker controls the light giving me problems. Left rocker controls one LED and seems to give the other light controlled by the right rocker fits.
Below is the other end of the 3-way controlled by the left rocker in the above. Next to this rocker is two Lutron dimmers controlling separate sets of lights.
This is the 2-gang with two different 3-ways. Right rocker controls the light giving me problems. Left rocker controls one LED and seems to give the other light controlled by the right rocker fits.
Below is the other end of the 3-way controlled by the left rocker in the above. Next to this rocker is two Lutron dimmers controlling separate sets of lights.
#20
05-22-17, 12:44 PM
Power to the light is a 2-conductor cable.
If this is sounding too complicated I appreciate that but looking at the second switch of the 3-way it doesn't look to be wired right. I'm now doing what the 8-hour electrician should have done figuring out how to wire from scratch.
Turn the breaker off. - At the light connect the black to white.
- At the switch disconnect the 2-conductor cables one at a time and check for continuity black to white. The one with continuity is probably to the light.
- To verify at the light disconnect black from white.
- If the cable at the switch now shows open that is your cable to the light.
Turn the breaker off. If this is sounding too complicated I appreciate that but looking at the second switch of the 3-way it doesn't look to be wired right. I'm now doing what the 8-hour electrician should have done figuring out how to wire from scratch.
#21
05-22-17, 01:02 PM
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EDIT: We posted at nearly the same time. Sounds like, to do what you've suggested, I need a multimeter?
So I gave this a little thought now that I've reviewed a few 3-way wiring diagrams. I've also looked at the holes in the sheet rock to deduce what the electrician did.
Light A (No Issues) - Already had power because it was pre-existing. So he ran romex down the wall and under the floor and up to the other rocker switch (see #1). The existing power to light #A was already there (see #2).
Light B (Issues) - I would suspect the power came from the existing box that controlled Light A. However, not only did he run romex under the floor as mentioned but also up the wall to the Light B. Based on the diagrams I would have thought he'd have to run 2-wire romex between the two lights? Is it possible he's passing power from #2 and then on to #1/#3 through the rocker?
Light A
Light B
So I gave this a little thought now that I've reviewed a few 3-way wiring diagrams. I've also looked at the holes in the sheet rock to deduce what the electrician did.
Light A (No Issues) - Already had power because it was pre-existing. So he ran romex down the wall and under the floor and up to the other rocker switch (see #1). The existing power to light #A was already there (see #2).
Light B (Issues) - I would suspect the power came from the existing box that controlled Light A. However, not only did he run romex under the floor as mentioned but also up the wall to the Light B. Based on the diagrams I would have thought he'd have to run 2-wire romex between the two lights? Is it possible he's passing power from #2 and then on to #1/#3 through the rocker?
Light A
Light B
#22
05-22-17, 01:14 PM
Hold off on following my previous reply.
That is the way it is usually done. However you could run a second 2-conductor cable from the switch box to the new light.
What I'm trying to see is a 3-conductor cable between the two switches. Also the sheath needs to be stripped from the cable in the switch box. Only ~¼" extending past the clamp is plenty.
I would have thought he'd have to run 2-wire romex between the two lights?
What I'm trying to see is a 3-conductor cable between the two switches. Also the sheath needs to be stripped from the cable in the switch box. Only ~¼" extending past the clamp is plenty.
#24
05-22-17, 02:30 PM
I'll try to move the sheath back
Last edited by ray2047; 05-22-17 at 03:13 PM.
#25
05-23-17, 02:38 AM
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Good Morning,
I didn't get a chance to move back the sheath (needed to turn off the breaker and didn't want to mess with it while the kiddos were sleeping). I did grab some photos. From what I can tell is looks like he did use a 3-conductor cable between the two switches. So if I understand your earlier question that would mean the power is coming from the switch shown for Light A, pictured in my previous post yesterday.
For what it's worth I did confirm he is a licensed electrician and I confirmed it was on file and active before hiring him.
I didn't get a chance to move back the sheath (needed to turn off the breaker and didn't want to mess with it while the kiddos were sleeping). I did grab some photos. From what I can tell is looks like he did use a 3-conductor cable between the two switches. So if I understand your earlier question that would mean the power is coming from the switch shown for Light A, pictured in my previous post yesterday.
For what it's worth I did confirm he is a licensed electrician and I confirmed it was on file and active before hiring him.
#26
05-23-17, 07:04 AM
if I understand your earlier question that would mean the power is coming from the switch shown for Light A,
Here are what I would expect to see if power goes to the light from the first switch.
Here is what I'd expect if the light is fed from the second switch box.
Maybe the odd wiring isn't causing your problem and I'm just chasing wild geese but until the wiring is correct I can't be sure if it is or isn't the cause. Basically this is what I'd do if on scene, go from scratch. Connect the bad circuit correctly and then add in the other switch circuits.
#27
05-23-17, 07:42 AM
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Thanks again, Ray. It's hard to see in the photo, didn't realize how poor the angle was until I got it onto my laptop, but it appears it's 3-conductor coming in from the other switch and you can see the white tucked in with the black/white wire and then the white goes on to connect to the rocker. Now why they put a different sheath over the 3rd / white wire is beyond me.
#28
05-23-17, 10:43 AM
Is the white connected to the common terminal? (Common terminal is the odd colored screw. usually dark gray.)
Just bizarre some of this wiring. Remove the sheaths so the wires are clearly visible. (Check that he didn't nick the insulation on the wires. That is the only reason I can think the sheaths are there.)
Now why they put a different sheath over the 3rd / white wire is beyond me
Last edited by ray2047; 05-23-17 at 11:38 AM.
#29
05-30-17, 08:34 AM
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Had an electrician friend come by over the long weekend. Aside from some smaller things the original electrician did incorrectly, there does not appear to be anything overwhelmingly wrong.
We've determined the issue is with the light itself, or much more undesirable, possibly a loose neutral. We removed the porch lights and then switched out the light in the hallway that was causing problems to see if the same issue occurs again. If it doesn't, we'll switch out the porch lights to confirm they're not the issue.
If either the hallway light goes out again or the porch lights only come on at 50%, we'll start looking for a loose neutral. Hope we don't have to as it seems like a royal pain (we already checked the panel and everything is good there).
We've determined the issue is with the light itself, or much more undesirable, possibly a loose neutral. We removed the porch lights and then switched out the light in the hallway that was causing problems to see if the same issue occurs again. If it doesn't, we'll switch out the porch lights to confirm they're not the issue.
If either the hallway light goes out again or the porch lights only come on at 50%, we'll start looking for a loose neutral. Hope we don't have to as it seems like a royal pain (we already checked the panel and everything is good there).
