Electric for Above Ground Pool

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Old 06-21-17, 06:34 AM
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Electric for Above Ground Pool

Hi,

I need to have electric inspected for an above ground pool. Only the pump needs electric (there are no lights or anything else), and it is plugged into a GFI.

I have read that you need a receptacle with the bubble cover. But, in my case, the wire from the power cord from the pump is plugged into a receptacle inside the garage (which is 5' from the pool).

I drilled a hole near the bottom of the garage and run the power cord through the hole to the GFI inside. I neatened the hole up with a small piece of pvc and an "L" and run the cord through that so it doesn't just look like a hole in the wall.

1) Is this satisfactory for code or must I have an receptacle outside?

2) If I can have the GFI inside, are there special requirements for running a cord through a wall?

3) Are there requirements for how the GFI gets its power? As of now, my garage gets its electric from a run of UF#8 (or #10, I forget) and that runs to a fuse box with a throw switch. I guess that is old but its what was there when we bought the house 15 years ago. But it is not a subpanel, I don't think.

From that fuse switch, I run all of the garage electric--lights and receptacles. One of the receptacles is the GFI I put in.

4) Is that ok or must I have a subpanel. I am not sure if the inspection for the pool electric stops at the GFI where the pump will plug in, or if it gets traced all the way back to the main panel.

I have a hunch that part of a response is going to say that I need to have a subpanel powering the garage. If so, I will do that too, although I bought the house like this so I would image that the way it is set up is satisfactory.

I am in Nassau County, Long Island if help and/or matters.

Thanks for any help.
 
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Old 06-21-17, 06:48 AM
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Since you put the outlet in the garage, there are a different set of codes. In a garage, there can't be exposed Romex & the outlet or sub panel has to be 5' above the floor.
 
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Old 06-21-17, 06:56 AM
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Interesting.

Well, I do have exposed romex but could change that. However, I can't put it 5' above the floor inside the garage because then the cord from the pump wouldn't reach it. There is only a foot or two slack as it is (I would have to measure when I go home, but I guess it is only about a 6' cord from the pump).

So, if that is the case, I will need to put the GFI outside, in which case I will get the one with the bubble as is required. But, I would still have exposed romex in the garage. Does that pertain to all garage wiring or only dealing with the pool receptacle? Although much of the wiring is BX, there is no shortage of romex in my garage running to various lights and outlets and I REALLY don't want this project to include switching that. I am guessing that as long as the GFI is outside, the inspector would not look beyond the GFI into what I have in the garage?
 
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Old 06-21-17, 07:10 AM
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Exposed Romex pertains to the entire garage not just for the pool connection. Don't forget that if you are in an incorporated village in Nassau County, there could even be more codes besides national, state & county. If the garage is that much of a mess, move it outside & hope that the inspector doesn't want to look inside.
 
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Old 06-21-17, 07:14 AM
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I am not in an incorporated village, so that's a plus. There is definitely enough romex that I dont want to change it now. Sounds like I should go with the outdoor receptacle.

Any thoughts on the fuse box vs subpanel for the garage?

The box looks like this:
http://www.bakersfieldads.net/Oildat...ety-switch.jpg

And the fuses inside are of this type:
http://jimspearsfusebox.tripod.com/help/oldfusebox.jpg

I think the previous owner used it for welding as, when I moved in, it was set for 220v. There was a separate line coming in for lights only. (I'm pretty sure this is also a violation, and a garage can only have one incoming power source, not changing that though unless I have to so hopefully that is not noticed)

When I moved in, I switched it from 220, to two 110s and from that, ran a bunch of new outlets for my power tools and, now, the GFI.
 
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Old 06-21-17, 08:36 PM
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1) Is this satisfactory for code or must I have an receptacle outside?
Your are required to have a means of disconnect.... the ability to turn the pump off.... within site of the pump. A receptacle is ok.

2) If I can have the GFI inside, are there special requirements for running a cord through a wall? You cannot run a service cord thru any wall.
 
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Old 06-22-17, 04:06 AM
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The Romex doesn't have to be replaced. You can install drywall, to cover it. Did you recently install the pool & that's why it needs to be inspected?
 
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Old 06-22-17, 06:14 AM
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As PJ said, it is not allowed to run a cord through a wall. The best option in this case would just be to mount an outdoor box (Bell Box) on the exterior of the garage wall near where you would have run the cord. You can use romex to extend from the existing box to the new box as long as it is reasonably protected by a running board or wall covering.

As for the pool items specifically please let us know how far is the pump and receptacle location from the rim of the pool. It is not allowed 0-5 feet. At 6-10 feet it needs to be a twist-lock plug and receptacle. At >10 feet it can be a standard 5-15/5-20 plug and receptacle.

Usually when you pull a permit you do not have to bring existing infrastructure up to code and the inspector will only focus on the work listed on the permit paperwork, but if there is something obviously fishy or unsafe with your garage panel and feeder the inspector can require it to be fixed prior to approval. It would be up to their discretion.
 
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Old 06-22-17, 11:08 AM
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ok, installing a Bell Box is what I will do.

I checked this morning and there isnt too much romex--just a few outlets--but the romex is definitely not protected so I will work on that.

A couple of runs are along the 2x4 plate at the top of the wall. Would the height and being out of the way be considered reasonably protected?

Well, my bigger concern now is the distance of the pump/receptacle from the pool.

I was aware of the 5' rule but thought it was for the receptacle only. My yard is rather small and the pool is between the house and garage and there is about 6 feet from the side of the pool to the garage. I knew that it needed to be installed no closer than 4 feet to a structure (garage) so I thought that was fine.

The receptacle is about 5.5 feet from the pool, so it just makes it. But the pump itself is closer. The garage wall is about 5.5 from the pool so the pump, which is between the garage and pool is definitely closer--maybe about 3 feet from the pump to the pool. And, of course, I ran the PVC underground.
 

Last edited by rmathome; 06-22-17 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 06-22-17, 02:17 PM
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The amount of protection romex cable needs is really up to the discretion of the inspector. I think most of the time they will accept romex run around the top plate of the garage as long as there is some means of protection on the vertical runs down the wall. A sleeve of PVC conduit would be OK as would a running board.

The distance of the receptacle to the pool rim is all that matters. The pump itself can be closer. There is also a code article (although I don't remember the number) that allows for the inspector to grant an exception to the minimum distance requirements when they are impossible to satisfy due to property lines or similar immovable barriers. Sometimes in this case, the inspector will want an additional barrier between the water and the electricity like a small section of fencing just to make sure you can't touch both at the same time.
 
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Old 06-22-17, 03:32 PM
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A couple of runs are along the 2x4 plate at the top of the wall. Would the height and being out of the way be considered reasonably protected?
Reasonably? What % of inspectors & even codes are reasonable? The reason that code exists is because they don't want electric to be exposed to gasoline in cars. Insurance companies pushed for the huge number of codes that we have today. It saved & still saves them money. Here is a classic example. At one time boilers were exploding costing them money. Then came the Hartford Loop which maintained a safe water level. Who invented the Hartford Loop? It was the Hartford Insurance Co.
 
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Old 06-22-17, 05:06 PM
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Since you put the outlet in the garage, there are a different set of codes. In a garage, there can't be exposed Romex & the outlet or sub panel has to be 5' above the floor.
This is not part of the NEC. Could you please cite a source for this?
 
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Old 06-22-17, 06:18 PM
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Those are New York State codes. Romex is not permitted anywhere in New York City.
 
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Old 06-22-17, 07:45 PM
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New York city rules only matter in NYC. They do not apply to the rest of the country and to state as if they did is misleading. This board provides answers in line with the recognized national codes.
 
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Old 06-23-17, 06:28 AM
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Ok, I can see this about to turn into a nightmare. I need an inspection certificate to supply to the town when they inspect the pool.

I have contacted a number of electricians and they only certify their own work. In addition, only licensed electricians are supposed to do the work (which I am not).

I need to understand a couple of things for Nassau County long island and even the town is very hard to get answers from. Can anyone help with accurate answers for the following:

1) Can I have exposed romex in a garage?

2) The power leading to the garage (#6 non-metallic--it is UF from the house to the garage and non UF in the house and garage) goes to a throw switch (http://www.bakersfieldads.net/Oildat...ety-switch.jpg). From the switch, it branches off to my lights, outlets, and the pool outlet. So it is sort of acting like a subpanel. Is that allowed or must I install an actual subpanel in the garage?

3) If the answer to #2 is no, and I need to install a subpanel, I will. In that case, must I run a ground to a copper grounding rod outside the garage?

UPDATED:
I found this online, although not sure where on Long Island the poster is from, but it certainly seems like romex is fine in a garage:
http://www.electriciantalk.com/f5/ru...-garage-38921/

334.10 Uses Permitted. Type NM, Type NMC, and Type
NMS cables shall be permitted to be used in the following:
(1) One- and two-family dwellings and their attached or
detached garages, and their storage buildings.
 

Last edited by rmathome; 06-23-17 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 06-23-17, 07:34 AM
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This board provides answers in line with the recognized national codes.
How does that help the original poster? He gave us his exact location. Local codes supersede National codes.

rmathome:

On that thread that you posted, the inspector clearly told the original poster, no exposed Romex. You are never going to convince the inspector based on a quote from some guy on the internet who said that the inspector was wrong. I'll call a retired electrician later to clarify.
 
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Old 06-23-17, 08:26 AM
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Ok, I interpreted it differently. It seemed like the inspector was being a PITA and was enforcing something that was not in the code, and the poster posted what appeared to be something from the code book. Whether all of that is accurate and correct is one thing but, I agree that even if it is, and an inspector "writes his own rules" there isnt much you can do but comply. But if written code allows it, then written code allows it. You cant do the job guessing what non-codes someone might try to enforce. But maybe I read it wrong (or the OP was wrong) because it seems a little hard to believe someone would try to enforce something that can't be pointed to in the code book.
 
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Old 06-23-17, 08:37 AM
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Let me tell you something that happened a few years ago. Some inspectors in Nassau went to jail & they hadn't even taken any bribes. The remaining inspectors decided to go by the book. What book, who knows? Whatever book it is, it came with the Ten Commandments & your inspector will have it in mind when he visits you.
 
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