Converting Fluorescent from T12 to T8 No To LED

We have a 14 year old modular home on a foundation in Denver. Not sure if that makes a difference with this, but...

Both kitchen fixtures ( the ballasts? ) are kaput. When the ceiling warmed up last summer, one of them quit, so I switched tubes to the other one, and this summer, that one quit working. There's no attic, so the ceiling is insulated but warmer because of the roof being right above it.

So I'd actually like to convert these two dual 48" T12 fixtures to dual 48" T8, and get more light for less electricity. But I went to look into it and found that it doesn't look like I can just remove the fixtures easily - at least I cant see how.

So the question becomes, can I replace the ballasts and the end sockets easily and inexpensively, when they look like this photo?

If NOT, I may just have to replace the ballasts and keep them as T12's.

 

T-8's will fit in T-12 sockets..... so no socket change is required.
Just replace the ballast with a 2 tube T-8 ballast.

At the current time..... it's almost more cost effective to remove the ballast completely and replace the tubes with T-8 LED tubes. Very low power draw and will last a lifetime.

 

I THINK that LED's would be WAY more expensive and put out way less light. And we may sell the house in about a year anyway.

But THANKS PJ! :-)

 

But you'd be wrong. It just depends on where you buy the bulbs. I redid my bedroom T-12 with two $18 bulbs from Amazon that are as bright as new bulbs. Some sites do have outrageous prices and last I looked the selection wasn't good at Brick and Mortar BigBox home stores. Examples:

https://www.amazon.com/Hyperikon-equ...n%3A6104138011
https://greenlightdepot.com/collecti...ant=3706835332

Both are examples of bulbs that do not require a ballast.

 

I have converted about a dozen 48" twin bulb T-12 and T-8 fixtures in my warehouse and office. The LED bulbs are noticeably brighter than T-12 and T-8's.

The last bulbs I bought were $9.45 each and use half the power of the fluorescent bulbs. A new ballast at my local Lowes is $14.98 and a two pack of new fluorescent T-8 bulbs are $10.98. So it would cost $25.96 to do what you want with fluorescent. To switch to LED would only be $18.90.

When buying LED replacement bulbs make sure you get the type that are line voltage (120 vac) powered. That way you won't need any ballast at all.

 

Wow, interesting. I'll check at Home Depot.

But I'd rather not have to rewire the fixtures to go around the ballasts, in case someone wants to put in T8's later.

Thanks though!

 

I would not worry about someone trying to go backwards later.

 

Ok, I went to Home Depot today and talked to the guy there, and looked at the LED T8 lights they had. At least in the display one, the LED did seem brighter, but I realize that depends on lumens and color temp.

But if I had just wanted to use regular T8 fluorescent tubes, it would have cost me maybe $30 for two new ballasts to replace the bad T12 ones, then for 4 T8 fluorescent tubes.

So instead, I took the advice here and got 4 LED T8's that are about 5200 lumens each, at 5000k - $15 each. The kind where I can rewire without the ballasts. That way, it seems like I save the work of replacing the ballasts, and the LED T8's should last a bunch of years. But I should probably write a note up there, or tape the end of one of the boxes from the LED T8 up there, with a note to ONLY use those in the future.

Still gotta do the work, but hopefully I'll have light in the kitchen again soon. :-)

The energy savings is nice. It will save 100 watts over those 4 T12's.

 

Good job. Thanks for letting us know.

 

Thanks, but now I'm not sure what I got myself into. I opened one of the boxes and, it appears that instead of just using the existing T12 sockets, as suggested if I'd changed the ballasts to T8, these things look like they have special pin plugs and sockets that I have to use. So now I'm not sure how I've got to mount them, or what, and don't want to open the packaging if I may have to return them.

 

I looked them up and found this video: https://www.toggled.com/installation-instructions.aspx

Now I have to figure out what I have up there.

The only good news is that I'm a former Electronics Research & Development Technician with an ASET ( Associate in Science in Electronics Technology - 1969 ).

But I really didn't want this to be complicated.

Oh wait...

Looks like I'm ok!

 

Some facts that may help.

Some no ballast tubes you connect one power in wire to each end. Theses type will usually work with both T-12 and T-8 using existing tombstones (bulb socket)*.

The second type connect to only one end. They have one power wire to one pin of the bulb and the other power wire to the other pin of the bulb. With T-8 it is a problem because internally the socket often shorts the two pins together (shunts). In those cases the tombstones must be changed to unshunted. With T-12 because usually they aren't shunted this is not a problem

If the original light was T-12 you should have no problem. No need to change the socket. Either connection method will work with no changes.

*Note the reason the sockets don't need to be changed even for T-8 if power goes to both ends is because it doesn't matter which pin the power goes to in a pair of pins or even if it goes to both pins of a pair because in the bulb where power goes to both ends the pins are connected together inside the bulb.

 

Thanks Ray!

Yeah, it looks like the far ends ( yellow wires ) are not right. So I just need to remove the end plate tomorrow and look at them. Because the diagram they give, shows the far ends of EACH tube being tied together, but NOT to the ends of the adjacent tube. But it also looks like s simple matter of popping that panel off and seeing what I have. I think I got it now. I need to do it in the daytime, when there's more light in there.

Here's a photo of what I'm talking about.

 

That isn't what the diagram on the label shows.


It shows hot and neutral to the same end.

This video for your tubes also shows single end. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...tTPSCR1YJiTJAQ

They show tying all the wires on one end together with a wire nut but actually since they are not used it is just an easy of abandoning in place. No purpose served except to get them out of the way.

 

OK, maybe I misunderstood what they were getting at.

This is the other end before:


And I thought the other end was supposed to be wired together, so I did this:


But I just completed one set and got it buttoned up and turned it on, and no light.

So was I supposed to leave the other end OPEN?

Also, I'm using the old T12 sockets. Did I HAVE to switch everything to THEIR sockets?

 

This is turning into a "job from hell".

I opened up the wire nuts at the power end, and gator clipped everything together, then checked the voltage and there's voltage there. Then I checked the voltage at the sockets and NO voltage!

So I tried to pull that socket panel down to look and see what the wiring looks like, but it's blocked by the AC wiring coming in that end! Ahhhhhh!!!



...Just buzzed it out. There are 2 red wires and 2 blue wires. So I figured that the blue wires went to one side of EACH socket and the red wires went to the other side of each socket. NO! The blue wires go to each side of ONE socket, and the red wires go to each side of the OTHER socket, explaining why this didn't work! But at LEAST I know how to change this now!

 

Those lampholders look shunted and can't possibly work..?

 

Care to elaborate on that statement ?

 

Let there be light!

No, they work, but I had to separate the red and blue wires into the east and west side of each socket, THEN attach the east side red and blue wire to the black power wire, and the west side red and blue wire to the white power wire. Then I checked the AC and had voltage across the end pins on each socket. So I put it back together and put the LED's in, and turned it on, and only one of them lit! Arghhh! SO I swapped ends on the one that didn't light and IT worked! Yay!

Apparently only one end of these LED's gets power, which makes sense, being the other end could be shorted like I did, and would short out the power if both ends were wired for power. LOL

And BIG GIANT WOW! These puppies are BRIGHT!

Now I gotta go do the same to the other fixture and will finally be done!

Thanks to you all for suggesting these LED's. It's not so much the power savings, but the fluorescent tubes don't last as long, and then gotta be changed. The paperwork with these says that they have a lifetime warranty for residential, which is cool! OK, I'm 69 years old, but still...LOL

 

Great job.... and they look good.

 

Now that I know how, the other set only took 15 minutes. I missed it before, but there's a gray label on the back of these LED strips, indicating which is the powered end.

The ceiling is so dark in these photos ( it's white ) because these LED's blinded my cell phone camera! Jennifer came out to see my results and had to shield her eyes until they got used to it! And all 4 of these LED units ( I rechecked the boxes ) combined only draw 64 watts! Total of 8400 lumens at 5000k. Amazing!

Total actual cost was slightly over $60 but it's WELL worth it! The room has never been this bright!

I want to thank all of you! With forums like this, success still may not be guaranteed, but it's a HECK of a lot more likely, and I'm grateful!

I'm also wondering if it's possible to change the title of this thread, to indicate that the eventual conversion turned out to be to LED?

Let there be light!

 

Just noticed my typo on the thread title, and would like to modify it to also state that it turned into a LED conversion too. Any way to do that?

 

Title changed. .

 

$15 for each LED lamp or for each 2-pack? I was just at Lowes a couple days ago and they have similar LED conversion lamps that can either be used with an electronic T8 ballast OR direct wired with 120/277 volt power for $8 each.

 

$15 for each single tube, at Home Depot. I needed 4 for this.

It's unfortunately a bit late for Lowe's.