Ceiling wires no junction box

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Old 11-05-17, 07:42 PM
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Ceiling wires no junction box

I need to install some junction boxes in these old ceiling light areas. This one though might take a lot of damage. Any recommendations for what to do or can I install some sort of pancake box directly onto it?
next question - all the ceiling lights are on the same circuit yet I see no wire nuts connecting the next leg. Where is the junction made?
 

Last edited by qwertyjjj; 11-05-17 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 11-05-17, 07:48 PM
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Use old work boxes. They only need a hole as large as the box. The clips retract for insertion and expand behind the Sheetrock to hold the box
 
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Old 11-05-17, 08:11 PM
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I forgot to mention, it's plaster with lathe behind not sheetrock.
 
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Old 11-05-17, 08:22 PM
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Depth is adjustable for old work boxes.

You can also use new work metal boxes and madison clips. If the madison clip isn't deep enough to can make your own out of metal roof flashing
 
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Last edited by ray2047; 11-05-17 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 11-06-17, 12:25 AM
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The current hole is about 2" - so I have to destroy some of the plaster?
would a pancake ring work?
 
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Old 11-08-17, 08:17 PM
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No one likes the pancake rings? I guess they don't really hide the wires only prevent fire risk to the upside of the wires... The light contains the rest.
 
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Old 11-08-17, 09:00 PM
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A ring can't be used. A pancake box maybe.The question is will the light base conceal the pankake box.
 

Last edited by ray2047; 11-09-17 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 11-09-17, 06:05 PM
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What year was the building constructed? Do you have yokes? Is the floor above finished, or open attic? Is it possible you have knob & tube wiring? Are the conductors cloth & rubber insulated, or plastic? A junction box or K&T splice could be anywhere. Sorry, I can't tell much from the photo except that you appear to have decorative plaster that you probably would like to avoid damaging.

I have lath & plaster ceilings that originally had yokes installed. No box, just multiple fittings where BX cable was brought in and terminated under the canopy of a ceiling fixture. The yokes were set before the plaster was finished.

My plan was to replace them all with fan support boxes, while I was at it. After two removals went OK, because the yokes were already cracked loose from the plaster, I made a mess of the third one by using a Sawzall to cut out the yoke: The blade caught a piece of lath and punched it through the plaster. Oops. We were planning to have plaster and drywall work done anyway, but my wife didn't quite see it that way.

With that under my belt, I got metal fan support boxes and made a paper template, tracing it on to the ceiling. I then cut into the plaster by hand with a drill and a fine-bladed drywall-type saw. I drilled and hand-sawed the yokes off the support brackets. Where necessary I cut off the old bracket. For the ones accessible from the attic, I cut through the attic floor, measured carefully, and mounted a 2x4 between the joists with deck screws and L-brackets, Then mounted the fan box on the 2x4. I used a fan brace in the one location where I had no attic access. Time consuming but not really hard work. I was rewiring the whole house anyway. After everything was up and running, I foam sealed over the top of each box to stop air infiltration.
 
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Old 11-10-17, 10:40 AM
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Use old work boxes. They only need a hole as large as the box. The clips retract for insertion and expand behind the Sheetrock to hold the box

I generally like the plastic old work boxes, but no way would I trust one in the ceiling to hold the weight of a ceiling mounted fixture especially in a house like the OP has with the old decorative plaster over lath. Unless I miss my guess the ceilings are at least 9 feet or higher and the room needs a large fixture. Looks like K&T wiring to me. The wiring probably needs a 90C rating to connect a light fixture to it, but I am not that familiar with the codes in Canada.
 
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