Help wire sauna heater on 220v stove outlet

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Old 12-29-17, 10:57 PM
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Question Help wire sauna heater on 220v stove outlet

Hi,

Disclaimer: this is just temporary hookup for new year celebration that will be monitored by multiple people. Where we live there's no electricians available around this time of the year and I have one scheduled to come out and wire it properly right after new year.

I was asked to help wire 5-8Kw sauna heater to stove 40A breaker. I need some pointers how to properly wire to stove outlet. Any description, links or pictures are much appreciated.

Thanks!
 
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Old 12-30-17, 05:12 AM
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Do you have power close to the heater now? Why not just properly connect it, it won't be much more work? Temporary hookups tend to become permanent hookups when people see them working.

We need to know what you have and what is available. Pictures of what you are working with are very helpful.
 
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Old 12-30-17, 06:03 AM
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The old stove may not have enough wires, nor will it have the required gfi protection.
 

Last edited by pcboss; 12-30-17 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 12-30-17, 06:08 AM
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And knowing the specs of the sauna are important also as that usually dictates what the conductors and breaker rating must be to comply and of course for safety reasons.

You can post the name, model of the sauna. Do you have the sauna manual that states the necessary electrical needs of the sauna. You can't be guessing on this.
 
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Old 12-30-17, 08:02 AM
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Sauna is about 20ft from the outlet. I do not have manual here with me but I will later today when I'm there. Here's the link for sauna ALEKO | STO6IMATRA 4 Person Canadian Hemlock Wood Outdoor and Indoor Wet Dry Sauna with 6 KW ETL Electrical Heater
 
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Old 12-30-17, 08:24 AM
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Find out of the range receptacle is a 3 wire or a 4 wire. I would suspect the sauna will need a 4 wire if there are lights in the unit.

As PC mentioned, you will likely also need to change the breaker to a GFCI breaker.
 
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Old 12-30-17, 10:30 AM
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I found absolutely zilch as far as technical info. No mention of 120/240v or 240v only.
The only manuals and tech service that company offered is for gate openers.
 
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Old 12-30-17, 10:37 AM
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I was told it is brand new and it does have manuals and schematics that is need. I'm not physically there so I can't take pictures and post it here but I will be later today. Not sure why they don't put it online
 
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Old 12-30-17, 11:48 AM
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Below is diagram, heater and stove outlet pictures.
https://imgur.com/a/bySun
 

Last edited by JohnyBeGood; 12-30-17 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 12-30-17, 12:55 PM
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I can barely see the receptacle, can't make out the specs on the heater box or diagram (too small for these old eyes) and we don't know the size of the conductor going to the stove nor how many conductors there are going to the stove from the panel. Many questions have to be answered before the correct advice given. Also as mentioned never heard of a stove being hooked up to a GFCI breaker so we know you will need that. Depending on the brand name of the panel that may not be an easy - run out to the store and get one" really quick kind of thing.

Also I have tried to find specs online and nothing. Even there site as mentioned does not have the manual.

This reminds me of a customer who wanted me to hook up a steam shower they picked up really cheap. Come to find out when I was searching for the specs it was a pirated version illegally re-produced copy of a brand name make and model and it was not even UL approved. I passed on that job as he said he did not care and still wanted me to hook it up. Not chancing that with my liability insurance - no way!! - not to mention did not want to see him get hurt. I hope no one hooked it up for him.
 
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Old 12-30-17, 01:07 PM
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The receptacle appears to be a 4 wire and the diagram also shows 4 wires. All this should be confirmed on site.

Here is my suggestion:

install proper plate on range receptacle.
Change the range breaker to a 40 (or 50 if 40 is not available) amp 2 pole GFCI breaker.
Buy a length of #6/4 SO cord (it will be expensive) and a 50 amp plug to install on the end of the cord.
Connect the cord to the stove according to the diagram. Be sure to use a connector and not just run the cord through a hole in the sheet metal of the stove.
Install plug on end of cord. connect to receptacle.
Assume all liability for installation.
 
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Old 12-30-17, 01:09 PM
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I can't make out much in that small diagram either; even after enlarging them. I'm guessing the forum has resized the images? You might have better results uploading the images to a 3rd party site that lets you see full-size photos.

It's now Saturday afternoon and you need this working for the party tomorrow (Sunday)? Around here that would be difficult/impossible because of the supply houses' hours.
 
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Old 12-30-17, 01:17 PM
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Yes, forum has resized it and I did not even realized it. I'vere-uploaded them on imgur and updated post. Please refresh the page.
 
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Old 12-30-17, 01:34 PM
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Much better/readable. Possibly of use to you in case that 4-wire receptacle isn't really 4 wire... From the diagram:

Notice:
1. The Neutral wire (N) is not necessary if customer do not install the bulb.
 
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Old 12-30-17, 01:38 PM
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The neutral is only required and used for the lamps inside the unit.
The unit is completely 240v powered.
 
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Old 12-30-17, 01:47 PM
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Thanks! They are planning to use light/bulb inside so I will need to connect neutral.
 
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Old 12-31-17, 05:36 AM
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I do not believe that we have yet asked what the present conductors are from the panel to the stove receptacle is? Copper/Aluminum. Is it 3 or 4 wire? Is it the old two wire SE once used in installations? Just because there is an existing stove, conductors leading to the stove receptacle and going to a breaker in the panel does not mean the proper conductors nor number of conductors were installed as we know this could be an issue.

JohnyBeGood since you are attempting to have this finished by today finding a GFCI breaker for your panel may be a difficult task in such a short period of time. By no means are you to use a GFCI breaker that is not rated for the circuit breaker panel that you are installing it into. Meaning, if you can NOT get a hold of the proper circuit breaker that is specifically rated for this panel in time for the party do not attempt to install one not rated for the panel "just because it happens to fit".

And honestly I don't like where this is going - too much haste can lead to a serious health hazard. And I agree that if it does happen to go well for tonight that thought may cause the cancellation of a professional installation to save money.
 
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Old 12-31-17, 09:46 AM
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And honestly I don't like where this is going - too much haste can lead to a serious health hazard. And I agree that if it does happen to go well for tonight that thought may cause the cancellation of a professional installation to save money.
I agree 100%
-------------------
 
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Old 01-01-18, 04:43 AM
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JohnyBeGood please be sure to post back and tell us that after serious consideration it was determined by you (and maybe others) that this set-up was not such a good idea and was not pursued and if it was please tell us that no one got hurt.
 
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Old 01-01-18, 07:34 PM
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Thanks for your help guys! I was able to wire this plug http://midhardware.com/hardware/imag...mg/6410096.jpg and per diagram wired other end on the stove. It worked. They have electrician at the end of this week to wire it properly from the main panel.
 
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Old 01-02-18, 05:35 AM
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Glad no one got hurt. The whole event still bothered me.
Was a GFCI breaker utilized?
 
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Old 01-02-18, 01:48 PM
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...I do not believe that we have yet asked what the present conductors are from the panel to the stove receptacle is? Copper/Aluminum. Is it 3 or 4 wire?...
.
Don't see why the conductor material to the stove receptacle would matter, unless we don't trust that the receptacle was wired properly when the house was built. He's plugging in to it, not replacing it.

He did verify it was a 4-wire with a separate neutral and ground.

BUT, all the GFCI concerns were very valid, and it appears may have been ignored.
 
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Old 01-02-18, 05:15 PM
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Sorry MAC702 I can not agree with you on your reply to my post/statement.

My statement --> "...I do not believe that we have yet asked what the present conductors are from the panel to the stove receptacle is? Copper/Aluminum. Is it 3 or 4 wire?... "

Your reply to my statement--> "Don't see why the conductor material to the stove receptacle would matter, unless we don't trust that the receptacle was wired properly when the house was built. He's plugging in to it, not replacing it."

Conductor material and count would be a concern mainly because the OP just stated at the start there is a "40 amp breaker" and nothing else and just showed a picture of the receptacle. The OP also stated this was a "jimmie-rig" (my lingo) for a temporary connection to use an existing receptacle to hook up a device which could very well potentially "electrocute" someone if not done correctly. Asking as many questions of the OP is of the upmost importance in a situation such as this. Maybe the size of the conductor or the number of wires would not cause the electrocution but going with the thought that "we" the ones who responded to this post prior to the sauna being "jimmie-rigged" had high concerns that if this "jimmie-rig" did work the person with this sauna would in fact say "hey it worked for one night, not spending money for the electrician now" thinking if it worked for one night there is no danger at all when we know just because it may have worked for one night, even with it being "monitored" this idea of a "jimmie-rig" was NOT a good idea from the start. Actually we still don't know what the material composition is, nor do we know the gauge of the conductors as the OP still has not informed us of this mainly because "it worked" and at this time it really does not matter.

Also we don't know if the stove was wired correctly to begin with so yes we have concern and hence the question - not like there has never been a circuit run for a stove has never been wrong before - something like this "scenario" you don't trust to "the stove was probably wired correctly to begin with" - not taking that chance here.

We also did not know the skill level of the OP who was asked to make this "jimmie-rig" temporary possible "death trap" connection.
 
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Old 01-02-18, 09:19 PM
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...we don't know if the stove was wired correctly to begin with...
Okay. I found your answer in there!
 
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