Welding Cart build with attached sub panel.

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Old 07-14-18, 11:15 PM
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Welding Cart build with attached sub panel.

I have some experience working on electrical projects.
However, Iím not one to let my pride or ego through some ampís through me. I thought I would look to the internet for some refreshers and advice. However, that left me feeling a little tarded, with all the opinions and know it allís out there. That might have been my fault somewhat asking on Welding forums. I would like to get confirmation on or advice. I decided to put my project on this forum seems to have good electrical advice.


My Project: Picís of cart SketchUp with Sub-p and receptacles attached
I have 3 welders & (1) Plasma cutter, Set of Torches & (3) Grinders with a lot of welding tools. I have built a cart holding all item listed above. When I was young, I remember the old guy down the street who first taught me welding had a large cart set up similar to the cart Iím building now. This is where the idea came from.

Welding Cart Design: Cart measurements 54ĒW x 58ĒH x 26ĒD. Three decks Topdeck for TIG, MIG & PLASMA. Lower Deck for STICK & TIG-water cooler. The third deck is off the low back for storage of all bottles for Torches, TIG & MIG. Wheels are steel, Frame is steel, Body Panels are sheet metal. Three rolling draws for Grinders and some other tooling.

Main goals: Attaching Sub-P to cart. Having On/Off switches of each unit. Saving space. Switching machines at a flip of a breaker. To have all welders & torches portable around the shop and yard Ė driveway. Eliminating the need for more than one cord. Eliminating the unplugging and plugging of each machine. Only one Welder will ever be power at a time. Estimated max amp used on the cart at any given time (36A-40A.

Existing panels & outlet & Cord from other projects. Main Panel 200A. 1 x 220v 3-pull 4-wire receptacle-Wiring, (H1, N, H2, G). I canít think of the (NEMA) # right now. 1 x 2-pull 3-wire, (NEMA-6-50) receptacle. 1 x 75í 6/4 SOOW heavy insolated power cable. Cables are left over from an earlier project! 1 x 75í heavy insolated (4/4 SOOW) power cable.

Electrical receptacles mounted on the cart. 1 X Siemens PL Series 125 Amp 12-Space 24-Circuit Main Lug Outdoor Load Center. Leftover from earlier project 4 x NEMA 6-50 receptacles 2 x NEMA 5-15 receptacles. # 8 wire running from Sub-P to 220v receptacles # 12 running from Sub-p to 120V receptacles.

Electrical installation on cart:
Originally was going to power the Cart with the existing (NEMA 6-50). Making it a 220V only panel. However, I decided to install the two 120V receptacles for tooling. I donít believe there will be more than a 40A Draw, rating on the high side. The (MIG) can pull 36A running on max setting for long periods of time. There will be only one machine at a time powered on. Worst case is a welder still powered on while a grinder or other hand power tools are operational.

I was looking for confirmation with my electrical planning, I ask around on one of the welding forums that Iím active on. All that established was doubt & self-confusion, one guy even had me think I was wrong to not bond N & G in the sub, he also said I needed to run a separate Ground wire from ground to Cart frame. It has always been a rule of thumb to not bond N & G in a sub-P. Since they are bonded at the Main. Anyway, I have seen a smaller subpanel attached to a large welding cart before. As I stated above. However, I wanted to make sure Iím not putting myself in harmís way with this project.
Which brings me here
First, two pic's are the build in the early stages. It now looks more like the Sketch with the body panels and some of the electrical mounted.
 
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Last edited by TrickedoutTech1; 07-14-18 at 11:30 PM. Reason: Adding Pic's
  #2  
Old 07-14-18, 11:52 PM
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In the subpanel you add a bonded ground bar. All grounds go to that including the green of your SO cord. The neutral bar is isolated (not bonded) and all neutrals go to it.
 
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Old 07-15-18, 07:30 AM
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1) Connect the welding cart steel to the ground bar of the panel with a mechanical lug and #8 copper wire.

2) Install GFCI receptacles on any 120 volt circuits.

3) When using Romex and SO cord you are required to connect them to a box/panel using the proper connectors. It appears that you have just run them through a hole without a connector.

4) Is that an EMT fitting where the conduit enters the panel? It appears to me to be a Flexible metal conduit fitting.
 

Last edited by Tolyn Ironhand; 07-15-18 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 07-15-18, 07:36 AM
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Great looking cart. Sounds versatile as heck. I just wonder how heavy that thing will be.
 
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Old 07-16-18, 08:33 AM
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I was wondering the same thing! Are you going to put a hitch or towing lug on it? I'd have to use my tractor to move that thing around or winch it onto the trailer to get to a jobsite.

Looks like great work.
 
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Old 07-17-18, 07:50 AM
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1) 10/4-On the mechanical lug bond to cart. Will do! I have a few laying around. I'm going to bond both ground bars within the panel. That way I don't have to run all my grounds to one side of the panel.

2) I have a few GFCI receptacles as well. I will swap them out on the 120V

3) Yes, I have full intention of using the proper pinch connectors on the box/ panels. This is just a test run. I'm thinking of running conduit between them. Good eye & good looking out.

4) yes, that is an EMT fitting for FMC. However, I have found they work pretty good on 1/2" metal conduit. I even drilled two small holes and spot welding the compression insert into the conduit. However, I have decided to use FMC for the entire project. I think it will be easier and look better as well.
I will make some changes and repost some photos when I get a chance!



Thanks for all your advice. It's nice to get some true advice instead of a bunch of opinions.
 
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Old 07-17-18, 08:05 AM
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No, I'm not going to add a ball and tow it. It has steel wheels. That would not work out well lol. However. It will easily load on to one of my trailers and tie down if needed.

I have a 5' x 5.5' x 1.5" thick steel welding table. It will make it easy to move around that when needed. it will also be easy to move all my gear torches, Tig, Mig, Stick, and Plasma out to the driveway or anywhere within the reach of the power cord. Plus all my welding gear stays together, and I have what I need to matter where I'm working.
I can also swap from Tig to Mig or any of the other machines in a flip of a switch. I would say the biggest advantage is, everything is in one place taking up less room in the shop. Including hammers, Grinders, disc, chippers. Tig wire. Mig wire etc. It will clear out a lot of space on my workbench and tool drawers.

Thanks again for all the questions and advice!
 
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Old 07-17-18, 03:45 PM
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>> "with all the opinions and know it allís out there. That might have been my fault somewhat asking on Welding forums"
 
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Old 07-21-18, 09:47 PM
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[QUOTE=CycleZen;2716716]>> "with all the opinions and know it allís out there. That might have been my fault somewhat asking on Welding forums"
 
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Old 07-21-18, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tolyn Ironhand View Post
1) Connect the welding cart steel to the ground bar of the panel with a mechanical lug and #8 copper wire.

2) Install GFCI receptacles on any 120 volt circuits.

3) When using Romex and SO cord you are required to connect them to a box/panel using the proper connectors. It appears that you have just run them through a hole without a connector.

4) Is that an EMT fitting where the conduit enters the panel? It appears to me to be a Flexible metal conduit fitting.
The project is just about wrapped up. I will post some pic's once I have all the body panels on. The painting will not be done though. I have too many other projects going on right now. No time for running paint, until the winter months. I need to make some room for Motorcycle, ATV ail lift to work on my wife's motorcycle.
I have one more question.
1) I do have the 20A (GFCI) 120V receptacles I originally thought I had. However, I was wondering if you thought it would be better to run a (GFCI) Breaker instead of the (GFCI) receptacles?

There are two 120V receptacles on the cart. I was planning on running one (120/240V, 20A 2-Pole Circuit Breaker) The ground will be pigtailed to each receptacle. Same for the neutral. Power will be split between each pole of the beaker.
I started to think that it might be best to install a (GFCI) Beaker instead. I know that would be the more expensive way to go. I'm wondering if you thought would be safer or not on this particular project?
 
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Old 07-22-18, 06:22 AM
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GFCI breaker does the exact same function as a GFCI receptacle. It would not be any safer. If you used a multi-wire circuit (two hots sharing a neutral) you will need to use a two pole GFCI breaker if you go that route.
 
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Old 07-22-18, 07:39 AM
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The breaker would cost more for no benefit and the same level of protection .
 
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Old 07-22-18, 09:37 AM
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Thanks for the quick reply. I pretty much understood it was at the same level of protection with little differences. I've seen GFCI breaker called for in some cases. I wasn't sure about the determining factors or situations that call for one over the other. To my knowledge on GFCI receptacles, you can either wire them to work as a single safety point or for protection to all downstream boxes. TMK. they don't protect from the breaker to first GfCI.

In your recommendation for GFCI on the 120v circuits, I wasn't positive if you envisioned complete GF protection for the entire circuit or just at the receptacles.
If it was for the entire circuit, then I was with the 2-Pole GFCI Breaker. I guess I just should have asked that question. My mind started (Overthinking) as usual though.
Since that doesn't seem to be the case, I'm going to run the single pole 20A breakers, I have them allready. I didn't want to run a multi-gang circuit on one 20A S-pole. To ensure I can have two 13A grinders up at once, if needed. JFYI, I will make sure each circuit has its own neutral! You'all have been a big help!Thanks Again for the quick reply. I will be back at it this evening. Wrapping it up.
 
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Old 07-24-18, 12:30 PM
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In your recommendation for GFCI on the 120v circuits, I wasn't positive if you envisioned complete GF protection for the entire circuit or just at the receptacles.
The electrical code only requires GFCI protection at the point of use, not the circuit wiring inside the walls. A GFCI breaker is only required for devices like a jacuzzi pump motor that is hard wired in to the circuit. Other than those cases you can choose to use either GFCI receptacles or breakers depending on your preference.
 
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Old 09-18-18, 08:10 PM
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Cart Completed

My apologies that it took so long. I had some work out of state plus a busy schedule lately. However, I found the time to finish the project. I wanted to make sure I posted some pic's of the welding cart completed. My Everlast 253DPI-Power-Mig is not in the cart. I also have not put the water cooling in yet. everything else is loaded on the cart Old cheap Mig, Tig, Plasma. Just missing new Mig, water cooler for tig.

My apologies again that it took so long to finish this thread!
Have a good one all!
 
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Old 09-20-18, 11:45 AM
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Bad ass rig.
Suggestion for starter tig welder? Already have lincoln 110 w gas
 
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Old 09-21-18, 11:08 AM
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Looks pretty awesome! Great job!
 
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Old 10-01-18, 08:11 PM
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Make sure you have you torch connected as DCEN. I remember making that mistake a few times back in the day. Practice!
My best advice, go to Lincolns subsite. Lincolns (jflf) website is great, for beginners, school and pro's alike. They have good, high-quality coupons for practice welds, Books and more. here> Metal Project Kit
Purchase some of the coupon kits. They are cheap for the amount of good cold rolled coupons you get. They have some nice Eagle and plan welding project as well that you can sell or give as a gift to family and friends. You can get Aluminum coupons as well. And practice. Watch welding like Weldingtipsandtrick.com on youtube and his site. Jody Collier is a good guy with tons of knowledge. Ask questions if you can't find the answer, and practice your ass off. with only 20 min under the gun 4 days a week you can build some exp fast. If you have any Pacific question and start a thread just pm me and I will help you out if I can. Have a good one.

Eagle:
Eagle Project Kit
Plan:
Airplane Project Kit
Steal coupons:
Metal Project Kit
Books:
Books
 
 

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