Concord Express: More Hardwire Sensors in One Zone?

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Old 01-20-17, 10:23 PM
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Concord Express: More Hardwire Sensors in One Zone?

My Concord Express Alarm System was installed in 2004. Now I need to clear the memory and reprogram the control panel because of the failing sensors. The professional installer in 2004 programmed the 13 hardwire sensors (include one smoke detector and 2 PIR motion sensors) into 6 zones (Concord express has total 6 hardwire sensor zones. The "Concord Express Installation Instructions" does not tell how to do that. If any expert knows how, please kindly give me directions. I will greatly appreciate it.
 
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Old 01-21-17, 03:00 AM
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Pomelo, I can't think of any circumstance where failing sensors would require a reprogramming from factory default. This is a common novice mistake, to try to fix hardware failures with software programming.
Problems that require defaulting the panel programming are extremely rare and when somebody does it, they usually find it hasn't fixed the problem because the problem wasn't in the programming in the first place.
In general, defaulting the panel programming and re-programming from scratch is a last resort when nothing else works.

Specifically, there is no specific programming for having multiple sensors on a single hardwired zone. The panel don't care how many sensors are on a zone loop--it treats the loop as an integrated whole, not as individual sensors. E.g. "Child's Bedroom Windows" may be 4 windows all on one zone. The panel doesn't "know" (or care) that there are 4 window, only the state of the zone.

If you'll tell us the specific symptoms---what your system is doing (or not doing) that it it's not supposed (or is supposed) to do, then we could possibly save you a lot of work that won't solve your problem.
 
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Old 01-23-17, 02:00 PM
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Thanks a lot for the information provided by ChosunOne.
The symptoms of my Concord Express are:

When all doors and window are closed, the "Ready" green light does not turn on; the display shows: "Zone 8 Supervisory". I used a good wireless sensor to replace the bad one; it doesn't work (no response).

I was told that the panel needs to learn the new sensor by reprogramming the panel. To reprogram, I will need the installer code, which is unknown and unavailable. Therefore I am thinking to reset the panel to factory default for get the default installer code of 4321 and then reprogram the panel.

You said no need to default the panel, then how to make the new wireless sensor work? Again, your help is very much apprecaited.
 
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Old 01-23-17, 04:03 PM
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Yes, in a circumstance where you don't have the installer code; the clear memory/default is the last "hail mary".

Here are the things to be aware of:

Some installers also use the dealer code option. If so, the clear memory will _not_ default the installer code. The problem is that you won't know until you make the attempt.

Not all keypads are programming keypads. What is your keypad model?
 
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Old 01-26-17, 12:16 PM
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I have bought an alphanumeric touchpad, which is for reprogramming the control panel.

The Concord Express Installation Instructions says: to enter PROGRAMMING Mode, you need to enter the installer/dealer code; the default installer/dealer code is 4321.

I know the dealer code can't be cleared by memory clearance. I guess the previous installing company did use a dealer code and it won't be the default 4321. The dealer code is for setting the monitoring phone numbers only. The installer code they used shouldn't be 4321 either. The installer code should be reset to the default after clearing the memory. Is that right?

However if the installing company used the same 4 digits for both installer code and dealer code, that would be a real question for me. Do you think the system allows the same 4 digits for both installer and dealer code?
 
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Old 01-26-17, 03:44 PM
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From the installer manual, page 43:

"The four-digit installer code is used for entering program mode and
changing system settings. If you program a dealer code, only those
settings not associated with phone numbers and the downloader code
may be changed
You may not delete the installer code or clear it from the panel memory.
To change the installer code to its default setting, enter 4321."

http://site.geoarm.com/pdfs/GE/conco...tall-guide.pdf
 
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Old 01-26-17, 11:33 PM
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MrRonFL, Thanks for your explanations. Yes, I will do the MEM CLR by shorting the two solder points of the EEPROM. After that I will be able to enter SYSTEM PROGRAMMING by entering 4321. Then I can do the reprogramming. And, as you said, I can change the installer code.

Now back to my original question: how to program more hardwired sensors on one Zone? I have 13 hardwired sensors connected to the panel and the previous installer programmed all 13 hardwired sensors into the 6 Zones that were defined by the factory. There 6 wireless sensors programmed to 6 Zones, one sensor each Zone. These programmed sensors all worked fine until only a few weeks ago. Now a wireless sensor is bad. Since I don't have the installer code; I have to do the reprogramming by myself.

After entering SYSTEM PROGRAMMING, the panel needs to LEARN the sensors. What I do is to enter sensors one after another by entering sensor number and 2 digit group number (10 for front door and side door, 13 for windows, 17 for PIR motion sensors, 26 for smoke detector). The installation instruction does not mention the zone number. I wonder how to make the 13 hardwired sensors into 6 Zones that were defined for hardwired sensors by the factory. This is my question. I do need your help.
 
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Old 01-27-17, 03:40 AM
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Each hardwired input is programmed as a single zone. The individual hardwired contacts are just switches wired in series, they have no "intelligence". The zoning is mechanical, not software.

1. With the display showing SENSORS, press # and the display shows LEARN SENSORS.
2. Press # and the display shows SENSOR GROUP 0. (This is the equivalent of "zone type" in the next step you change it to match the type of zone you are trying to program)
3. Enter the desired 2-digit sensor group + # (see Appendix A for a description of all sensor group characteristics). The display shows TRIP SENSOR nn, where nn is the displayed (next available) sensor number.
4. To change the displayed sensor number, enter the desired 2-digit sensor number + #.
5. With the desired sensor number displayed, trip the sensor or zone as follows:
Hardwire Zones—trip the zone into the alarm state (make sure you are starting with all contacts on the zone in the closed state)

http://static.interlogix.com/library...%20REV%20J.pdf
 
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Old 01-27-17, 01:30 PM
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Red face

Hi MrRonFL,

Your explanations are very helpful. As this is my first time working on a alarm system, I would like you to check whether my understanding is right.

You said "Each hardwired input is programmed as a single zone... The zoning is mechanical, not software."

My understanding: Each hardwired input can be one or more sensors. If more than one, all sensors need to be connected in series. All these in-series connected sensors will be automatically going into the same Zone when they are individually programmed (learned by the panel).

Following is an example what I am going to do in programming my current Concord Express system:

1. With display SENSORS, press #, display shows LEARN SENSORS

2. Press #, display shows SENSOR Group 0 (This is the zone type, such as 10 is for entry/Exit with standard delay)

3. I enter 10 + #, display shows TRIP SENSORnn

4. I enter 01 + #, display shows TRIP SENSOR01 (Sensor 01 is my front entry door)

5. I open the front door (it must be closed before entering PROGRAMMING)

Now sensor 01 is done. Then I program sensor 02 by starting from above step 1. through step 5 again.

When it is done, both sensor 01 and 02 will be automatically going into Zone 01. Is it right? But when and how to confirm both sensors are on Zone 01?

Please check what I did above; let me know whether the above is right. Please also give me your answer for the above question. Thanks MrRonFL.
 
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Old 01-27-17, 05:02 PM
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No. ALL of the contacts connected to the zone input are essentially one "sensor". If you have two or more contacts wired to the same zone, you only have to trip _one_ of them to complete the "sensor" enrollment. You could achieve the same effect by taking one of the wires off of the zone input. The system only sees "open" and "closed" on hardwired inputs.

ITI (the company that originated this nomenclature) created a lot of confusion because they used the term "sensor" where everyone else used "zone" and "sensor group" where everyone else used "zone type".

Sensor 1 is zone input 1; sensor 2 is zone input 2, etc. Individual contacts only come into play when you are handling wireless devices, each of which is a sensor/zone on its own.
 
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Old 01-27-17, 10:01 PM
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Hi MrRonFL, Sorry I misunderstood something. Actually when 2 or more hardwired contacts are physically connected to one zone on the panel terminal, I only need to trip one of them.

In my case, there are two contacts connected to Zone 01(It is Sensor group 10):

Contact 01 (hardwired sensor 01): Front entry door
Contact 02 (hardwired sensor 02): house to garage door.

When display shows TRIP SENSORnn, I only enter contact "01" + # and
trip it either by opening the front entry door, or taking off one wire from the panel connection terminal. Zone 01 is done.

I don't need to do anything for contact 02. Is this right?

Please let me know. Thanks a lot.
 
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Old 01-28-17, 03:04 AM
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Yes, you only need to trip the one. Hardwired door contacts don't have any intelligence. If there are 10 windows on a single zone input, you still only need to trip one.
 
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Old 01-28-17, 07:01 PM
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How to trip the PIR ?

Dear MrRonFL,

There are two PIRs connected to the panel on Zone 5. I don't know they are in series or in parallel.

It seems somewhere it says to trip the PIR by opening the cover of the PIR. But it doesn't say what to do after opening the cover. The plastic cover covers the upper portion of the PIR and the ball shape transparent window. I tried hard but couldn't remove it.
 
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Old 01-28-17, 07:27 PM
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Hardwired PIRs are just another contact closure device (they are essentially motion activated relays). The best way to learn this zone in, is to take one of the wires off of the zone input.

If they are sharing the same zone, then they are wired in series (hardwired security is 99% NC contacts/relays).

The instructions you are reading are for wireless devices.
 
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Old 01-29-17, 10:50 AM
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Dear MrRonFL,

With your help, I have got a complete picture of how to program hardwired contacts and wireless sensors. I am ready to practice on my Concord express system. Your are a real expert in the field of home alarm systems. Please accept my sincere thanks for all your help.
 
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Old 01-29-17, 05:57 PM
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You are welcome. The Concord/ITI family of systems isn't my strongest suite. They aren't common in my area, so I never became as intimate with them as some of the other brands. It's good hardware; they just created their own nomenclature for everything...
 
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Old 02-01-17, 06:02 PM
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Panel memory couldn't be cleared

Hi MrRonFL, Today, I worked on my Concord Express System starting with clearing the panel memory. Unfortunately, I failed to clear it even I repeated the action for a number of times. Following is the details:

I powered off the panel: both AC and battery
Shorted the 2 MEM CLR solder points at side of the EEPROM
Power the panel on. Keeping power on for about 20 or more seconds
Removed the shorting metal from the 2 solder points
I checked the display of the fixed touchpad and found the master code and used code wre still there. And I can see Zone 1 OPEN ...

I then did if in another way: while panel power was on, I shorted the 2 solder points with tip of a screw driver for 20 seconds or more. After I removed the screw driver from the solder points and checked the fixed touchpad, the display was still working on the Zones and use codes.

Do you know why the memory can't be cleared?
 
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Old 02-02-17, 03:26 AM
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Most likely because the original installer configured it in such a way as to disable the hardwire memory clear function.
 
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Old 02-02-17, 02:55 PM
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Hi MrRonFL, To clear the memory by shorting the 2 solder points was instructed by Mr. GEGUY who was an GE tech support technician for 16 years and worked at doityourself for years. He is a real GE expert. Is he still working for doityourself?
 
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Old 02-02-17, 07:17 PM
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There is no way to program the memory clear not to happen...

However, if there is a Dealer Code in the panel, it will not reset it..it will reset the installer code.

Pomelo...
Maybe you're not hitting the solder points just right? Try it again
 
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Old 02-02-17, 07:29 PM
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There is a way to use the downloader software that disables the ability to use the hardware default, not all installers choose to do this, but some do. Only a copy of the same software with their OEM code programmed in can undo this.
 
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Old 02-02-17, 08:39 PM
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I'm getting a little rusty

Should think about changing my moniker...haven't been with the old outfit for about 6 years now...ever since they decimated the technical, manufacturing, and sales staff and moved everything off shore
Perhaps the new moniker should be "Made in the USA guy"...that's a hint as to what manufacturer I'm now with

But I digress....
 
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Old 02-02-17, 10:32 PM
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I know MrRonFL and GEGUY are the real alarm experts. Mr. GEGUY is specially good in GE/ITI products; Mr. MrRonFL in all other products. With your help, no problems that can't be resolved.

I carefully viewed my Concord Express panel. I had 2 findings:

1. The memory chip, 24LC64 was installed on an 8 pin socket, which locates at near the lower left corner of the CPU. The "MEM CLR" mark locates at near the upper right corner of the CPU. How come the "MEM CLR" is far away from the chip? Is the "MEM CLR" marked at the right place?

2. There are two 2 solder points by the "MEM CLR" mark: 2 bigger ones at the right side of the mark; 2 smaller ones at the lower right corner of it. I shorted the 2 bigger ones; not the smaller ones. How to verify which 2 are the right ones?

I shorted the 2 solder points in two ways: 1. Stuck a metal piece on them; then power the panel on. I did it a few times. 2. With the panel powered on, I used a flat-head screw driver to short the 2 solder points. I am sure they were shorted well. But no memory was cleared.

I saw an article that says the MEM CLR only work on the Concord Hybrid panel, not the Concord Express panel. Is that right?

I would like to provide photo pictures of my Concord Express panel that clearly shows the locations of the memory chip and the "MEM CLR" mark.
Please tell me how to attach photos.
 
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Old 02-02-17, 10:46 PM
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photos of my Concord Express panel

Name:  Concord Express Panel 009.jpg
Views: 696
Size:  52.1 KBName:  CPEEPROM and MEM CLR 004.jpg
Views: 476
Size:  51.1 KB

I am attaching the photo pictures of my Concord Express panel. First time to do this. Don't know whether it works.
 
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Old 02-03-17, 03:19 AM
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Go with GEGuy's advice. As I stated earlier, Concord family panels just aren't common enough in my area for me to be 100% comfortable with what I tell you. On average, I only touch one of those in a given year.
 
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Old 02-03-17, 03:55 PM
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MEM CLR doesn't function on Concord Express Panel

Hi MrRonFL, the information you gave is very helpful. With your help I started working on the system. Now the issue is that the first step was blocked by the MEM CLR. It does not function. I am unable to go any further.

Clear memory by shorting the two solder points that marked "MEM CLR", is a hardware means. I guess it works through the CPU; the CPU sends a signal to the EEPROM and clear the memory.

You said the installer may have disabled the MEM CLR function. The Installation Instruction does not say anything about that. How can a installer disable it.

Some one says the MEM CLR works on Concord Hybrid pane, but not on Concord Express panel. Do you have the experience on these two kinds of panels?
 
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Old 02-03-17, 05:30 PM
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The concord express is actually more difficult to "take over" than the Concord 4. If you don't have the installer code; you are basically stuck. Your choice is to have the original installer do what you want, make a lucky guess at the installer code, or replace the alarm control.

There's no secret handshake, there's no hidden back door. The original installer may have simply ordered a batch with no hardware default enabled.
 
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Old 02-04-17, 11:54 AM
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Hi MrRonFL, I agree that Concord Express is hard to take over. I guess the MEM CLR not functioning can be a defect of it. They improved it for the Concord 4 (the Hybrid) so it works for it.

As the original installer is unable to find, I have to continue my efforts. I am thinking about another way toward the issue: Find experienced individual(s) who knows how to do that. For this purpose I am going to create a new thread. If we get a solution, it will benefit all Concord Express users.
 
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