Kick boards installed in pieces


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Old 01-14-16, 10:21 PM
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Kick boards installed in pieces

Had a new fence installed between my house and my neighbor. The guy who did it put in metal posts with 3 rails running across and vertical boards between them. The kick boards he put in alternate on each side, and 3 of them were installed in pieces, with blocks of wood on my side where the boards come together.

I talked to him about it and his argument was that since the yard dips in the middle, the kick boards in those spots required boards of a width and length that he couldn't get. Also, something about the kick boards needing to go from the far side of one post to the far side of the next post on that side of the fence.

That didn't make a lot of sense to me, but he played the "I've been doing this for 10 years" card and I know nothing about fences, plus I had had some other issues with him that pissed me off, so I gave up. I looked at the fence again and there are some complete kick boards on the other side that seem to be the same width and length as the ones that he pieced together, so I'm starting to think he was full of it.

Also, looking at the fence, I see complete kick boards that go from the outside of one post to the outside of another, so, um, what? They're metal posts with wings on one side, and the wings are on my side, so I don't understand how the kick boards have to be longer on the other side.

He had also noted that since those pieced-together kick boards were on the other side, they seemed to benefit me somehow, but I have those blocks of wood where the pieces come together on my side while the neighbor has boards that come together on their side. Seems they could simply fill in those seams and paint the boards, and they would probably look like complete boards.

Yeah, photos will help, but it's dark outside right now. I'll see if I can snap some later. And I admit that maybe I'm on the wrong track here, since I've never built a fence before, which is why I'm posting here.
 
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Old 01-15-16, 03:08 AM
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Welcome to the forums!

Unfortunately there are lousy contractors out there [in all trades ] Personally I'm not a fan of kick boards because the ground contact often means they have a shorter life. The dimensions of the boards in question would be helpful. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...your-post.html
 
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Old 01-16-16, 01:29 PM
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Here are the pics. The first one is a shot down the fence line.

http://imgur.com/gallery/DPJsa/new

The next four are the kick boards starting from the end of the fence to my right, when I'm facing it. You can see how they alternate. The fourth kick board is an example of one of the three kick boards that were pieced together (the other two are toward the other end of the fence), along with some close-ups of how he held them together on my side.

I measured the first board on my side, which is the second image in the series, and it's about 100 inches long (8 feet, 4 inches) and about 9 inches wide.

I can't measure the full length of that pieced-together board, since it's on the other side, but I measured from post to post, and that's about 100 inches. That board is about 8 inches wide.

I assume that board is a bit more than 100 inches long, then, since post to post is 100 inches and he had to go a bit longer than that.

I also assume all the posts are the same distance from each other. One of the things he told me was that since he didn't originally expect to do a good neighbor fence, he didn't set the posts as close together as he would have otherwise. (And I guess he was expecting to do kick boards that were all on the other side.)

We were expecting a good neighbor fence, since we were paying half, and when my wife talked to him about that, his response was, "You shouldn't have agreed to the bid if you wanted a good neighbor fence. The bid needed to specify that." That started our issues with him, as a few people have told me that a good neighbor fence is assumed in the bid, if the neighbors are splitting the cost.

I can do more measuring, if it will help. At this point, I'm just curious if what he's saying makes much sense. Thanks.
 
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Old 01-16-16, 03:25 PM
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I assume that board is a bit more than 100 inches long, then, since post to post is 100 inches and he had to go a bit longer than that.
Then he should have used a 10 foot board and cut to length. I would call him out on it. Get him to fix it or enough of a refund to have someone else do it correctly.

(Aside: I don't know where he got his boards but I have had a problem with buying 1x4s for corner trim on houses. You often need an 8' and a 10' but Home Depot here only sells 8' and 12' so I end of either spending more time driving or throwing away 2'+ of wood with a 12 foot where as it would be less then a foot waste with a 10' board. Maybe that was the problem he had with his supplier or he was too lazy to go buy the correct length.)
 
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Old 01-16-16, 03:49 PM
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Thanks for the response. When the fence was almost done, I noticed two spots where there were gaps in the kick boards. (The two pieced together kick boards toward the other end of the fence.) Since we have small dogs that could easily fit through those gaps, I texted him and asked when the fence would be done.

I heard him out there working, and then he texted me and said, "Ran out of wood. Fence is complete."

Given the other issues I had had, and the tone of his response (ran out of wood?), I decided to call the fence company. It turned out that, even though he submitted the bid on his employer's bid sheet, it was a side job. (My wife and I had our suspicions, but that was our first confirmation.)

That led him to come over and accuse me of "trying to get me in trouble with my boss." He claimed he had told my wife it was a side job, which wasn't true, and he said he had to use the fence company's bid sheet because of the grid lines on it, which was ridiculous.

He actually rents a room in the house next door, and my neighbor sang his praises on a web site called Next Door (it's basically social networking for neighborhoods), so I'm pretty much done with this. I suppose I could probably go to small claims court, but I don't feel like having additional agitation with someone who lives next door. He had told my wife he would be here another couple months, so hopefully he will move soon.

This was more about my own education on this matter and to see if what he was saying actually made any sense. I appreciate the feedback.
 
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Old 01-31-16, 02:50 PM
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A follow-up: I've noticed that several of the vertical boards are splitting, particularly where they're nailed to the rails. I'm not sure if they were like that before or if that has happened after the fact. Should I be worried about the splitting getting worse?
 
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Old 02-01-16, 03:18 AM
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Some splitting is to be expected but a lot depends on how big the split is. Do you know if the wood was kiln dried?
 
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Old 02-01-16, 09:39 AM
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I don't know anything about the wood, except that I'm sure he purchased the cheapest available option.

I can post photos, if that will help.

I'm also wondering about his nail holes. He was using a nail gun, and I've noticed that a lot of those nails were sunk into the wood, so there's a hole in that spot. (Someone commented to me that he probably had the nail gun setting too high.)

I also heard him hammering some nails in, and some of those nails obviously started to bend, since he just hammered them over rather than try to straighten them or pull them out and start over.

Even though this guy says he has a decade of experience doing fences for his employer, I'm starting to think that he's always been more of a helper, and he decided he could do a fence by himself when the opportunity arose.
 
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Old 02-01-16, 09:45 AM
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Ya, he doesn't sound like much a tradesman

Generally a nail gun is less likely to split wood than a hammer. Wet or air dried wood will sometimes split as it dries/shrinks. Nails drove too deep by the gun does indicate the air pressure being set too high. It is normal to occasionally have to finish driving in a nail with a hammer but just pounding a nail over isn't acceptable!

Hard to say what his experience level is. I've worked with painters that even with 20 yrs experience still couldn't paint as well as I could when I was a 1 yr apprentice.
 
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Old 02-01-16, 10:24 AM
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We've had a good amount of rain since the fence was installed (and he was sure to point out that he worked in the rain, which no one asked him to do), so I'm sure the boards have expanded and shrunk a bit.

Can I expect them to split further over time? Jut wondering if these splits will run up the boards at some point.
 
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Old 02-01-16, 10:27 AM
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It is hard to stay if they will split more or not although generally wood that is protected by stain or paint is less likely to split. IMO it is always a good idea to stain a fence as soon as the wood is dry enough to do so.
 
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Old 02-01-16, 10:57 AM
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Good to know. Thanks to you and others who chimed in on this thread. Live and learn.
 
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Old 02-10-16, 04:15 PM
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So, I realized that the reason why the boards are splitting is because he layered them, and the way he nailed them on is clearly putting pressure on the boards. The splitting is mostly happening around where he nailed the boards.

You can see an example of a board that's splitting on the right side of this image. There are a bunch of boards that are worse than this.

http://i.imgur.com/9T3NdFG.jpg

It seems to me that first, he shouldn't have put a nail in the center of each board, since it's affixed at an angle, and, second, he should have overlapped the boards enough that he could put the side nail through both of them -- The way he nailed them, the other nail is going into the rail, so it's pulling on the board too, along with the center nail.

Am I wrong in thinking this guy didn't really know what he was doing when he put the fence up?

I can supply some close-up photos, if it will help with my explanation.
 
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Old 02-11-16, 02:34 AM
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A nail in the center isn't a problem but not nailing on both sides is. It looks like he also drove a nail thru a knot

Am I wrong in thinking this guy didn't really know what he was doing when he put the fence up?
I think we already established that fact!
 
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Old 02-11-16, 07:16 AM
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He nailed each board in three places: On each side and in the center. But since he angled each one and drove the nails through to the rail on the other side, it seems to me that the center and right side nails are putting stress on the boards.

I'll upload some pics to demonstrate what I mean.
 
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Old 02-11-16, 08:47 AM
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Here are some pics that demonstrate what I'm talking about. In the second image, you can see how the boards were nailed on: Since each one is at an angle, the first nail is flush against the rail, so it's fine, but the second and third ones seem to be putting stress on the board, creating the crack. But maybe I'm wrong about that.

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Not all the boards are like that, but a number of them are. If stress is being put on them, I'm guessing the cracks could get worse over time, especially with the wood expanding and contracting as the seasons change. The fence is only a little over a month old, so it hasn't gone through a full year of seasonal changes yet.

Amazingly, my next door neighbor posted about this guy on Next Door, raving about what a great job he did and how anyone else who needs a fence done should contact him.
 
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Old 02-11-16, 09:56 AM
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Wow, that is crappy. The nails on the bottom are to close to the bottom of the board. That close to the end you'd be lucky if only 50% of the boards split. The nails at angle are just plain laziness. Not squatting down to get the gun perpendicular. Also increases the chances of the board splitting. The pickets appear to be the cheapest available. There isn't just one thickness of picket available. The thinner they are the cheaper they are. Of course the cheaper thinner pickets are more likely to split. Did he offer you a range of different quality boards and explain the problems with thinner low cost pickets? He even almost seems to have even over lapped some of the boards.

My opinion I'd be demanding he redo it on his dime. If he doesn't and you paid by credit card I'd use that as a threat.
 
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Old 02-11-16, 10:04 AM
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No options were offered. Everything was done through our neighbor.

He overlapped all the boards like that because he said it would help with wind resistance. My wife said he was very proud of the layered look he was creating. From afar it doesn't look bad, but when you get up close, you see all those cracked boards, effed-up nails, and other things.

And he actually told me he was proud of the fence.
 
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Old 02-11-16, 01:37 PM
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He overlapped all the boards like that because he said it would help with wind resistance.
Not a fence pro but with spaces the wind can pass through. If lapped it presents a broad flat surface for the full force of the wind. No gaps to relieve the pressure.

I'd be POed enough to make a complaint to his boss even though it was a side job. Go in polite and stay civil just ask him to come look at the side job one of his employees did. (Even if his boss blows you off I'll bet he'll be interested in finding out where the materials came from.)
 
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Old 02-11-16, 01:44 PM
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I've already spoken to his boss about it, so his boss is aware of the situation. Obviously I'm still annoyed about this, but I admit I don't want to poke the hornets nest again.
 
 

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