Shed framing

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Old 07-23-16, 06:11 PM
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Shed framing

Hello,

Quick question here. From what read here and there its good to have a over hang for the siding on my shed so that water cant come in easy up near the floor..

I'm building my shed on a concrete slab in my yard and was planning on using that foam strip under the floor plate and then using concrete anchors to tie it down to the foundation. Should I still leave a overhang on the siding? If so do I need to use some PL to glue the overhang to the concrete?
 
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Old 07-23-16, 06:30 PM
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You should use z bar flashing that will flash up onto the studs and extend 5/8" out and down. You will rest your siding on this flashing. Gibraltar Building Products 5/8 in. x 10 ft. Galvanized Steel Z Flashing-17845 - The Home Depot
 
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Old 07-23-16, 06:32 PM
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The best thing to do is to form a stem wall 6"-8" high as you pour the floor and foundation. If the slab is already poured, you can still lay a concrete block perimeter. That way your sill plate and siding will be a minimum of 6" above grade instead of being in the dirt.
 
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Old 07-23-16, 06:48 PM
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Where the picture so we can see what your seeing?
Any siding or sheathing needs to be at least 6" above grade.
 
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Old 07-24-16, 03:31 AM
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Should I still leave a overhang on the siding?
You always want some overhang as it will direct rain runoff away from the siding and the base of the building. I'd also want the wood base 6"-8" above the slab, maybe more in snow country.
 
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Old 07-24-16, 04:57 PM
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Old 07-24-16, 06:54 PM
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Yep, I would definitely lay a concrete block perimeter on that pad. Leave the correct gap for your door rough opening. Drill holes and epoxy some 1/2" threaded rod every 4' so the blocks and rod can be mortared solid and your sill plate can be anchored down. Then frame your walls off that. Siding will hang 1" below the bottom plate and will cover up the top 1" of concrete block.
 
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Old 07-24-16, 07:36 PM
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Not going to lie, not to keen on doing that and may just deal with occasional water intrusion if that's the case.

Would a sill plate seal under with some sort of exterior water proof seal like in this video work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9mwBElewQA

Or maybe using some spray foam to seal it?
 
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Old 07-25-16, 03:47 AM
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What is your aversion to laying block? It isn't that difficult and will make the shed last longer besides keeping it drier.
 
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Old 07-25-16, 04:54 AM
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I've never done anything like that before and it sounds a lot more difficult. Is there detailed instructions some where for that process?
 
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Old 07-25-16, 05:05 AM
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I'm sure there are videos out there. Since you only need to lay one course it should be easy. You mix the mortar [instructions are on the bag] and set the blocks in a bed of mortar and put mortar between each block. You need to keep a level handy so you can make sure the top of the block is all even and level.
 
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Old 07-25-16, 05:21 AM
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But wont the two layers of concrete not bond together?
 
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Old 07-25-16, 05:31 AM
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Mortar will bond to concrete. It is no different than pouring a concrete footer and then going back days later to start erecting a block wall.
 
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Old 07-25-16, 05:38 AM
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so would the process be to essentially lay the one round of blocks. Every three feet or so I guess I'd fill the will of the block and install a j bolt in it to to attach the sill plate and then build my walls on that?
 
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Old 07-25-16, 06:04 AM
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ill see if i can find the narrow width blocks... I don't want to lose to much floor space.
 
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Old 07-25-16, 06:18 AM
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Yes, you'd cement in an anchor every so often. Using a narrower block will mean you'd need to do some block cutting or add a narrow filler at some corners - no big deal. Blocks come in 12",8",6" and 4" widths. Most are 16" long and 8" tall.
 
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Old 07-25-16, 06:44 AM
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I thought for corners id just cut a block to length and the put the cut side against a uncut block?
 
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Old 07-25-16, 06:48 AM
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That's what you do with 6" block, with 4" block you could add a half block turned sideways. If it was mine I'd use the 6" block.
 
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Old 07-25-16, 08:00 AM
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Yeah well its only a 6 Ft wide pad so id like to keep as much floor space as possible. Sp cutting a block to length wouldn't work? Do they sell half blocks? I've never seen them?
 
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Old 07-25-16, 08:56 AM
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Guess I didn't explain it well If you use 6" block you'd have to cut the block to length so it will fit with the cut side being hid. They do sell half blocks but most just take a brick chisel and cut the block in half. Many [not all] blocks have an inner space that allows you to fairly cleanly break the block in half.
 
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Old 07-25-16, 10:01 AM
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Thanks for all the advice. I think I'm just going to use some aquarbarrier tape from IKO have it cover 2 in of my pad and the sill plate. Use a sill plate gasket as well with fiber cement board siding and have that over lap my concrete by 1 inch and then caulk the bottom. Blocks just seems overkill for a garden shed and I don't feel like spending the the extra money for blocks and morter. Maybe if this was a bigger structure at my final house id go that route but not for here.
 
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Old 07-25-16, 10:28 AM
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I also have a 2 in wide trench around the pad u can't see that I filled with peal gravel. Figure that will help to
 
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Old 07-25-16, 11:13 AM
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While I'm sure cement siding holds up better close to the ground than wood siding, it's not recommended it be installed at grade like you propose.

James Hardie products must be installed with a minimum of 6-in.
clearance to the ground on the exterior of the building. Clearances
greater than 6-in. may be required in accordance with local
building codes. Foundations are typically required to extend above
the adjacent finished grade a minimum of 6-in.
http://www.jameshardie.com/d2w/best-...-hz5-us-en.pdf
 
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Old 07-25-16, 01:35 PM
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Im not really at grade. The pic is kind of deceiving. its about 3 in above grade. The lawn isnt perfecting level around the shed so it looks worse.
 
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Old 07-26-16, 03:38 PM
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So it's 3" above grade. Bottom of your siding will be 2" above grade by the time you drop it down 1" below the edge of the pad. We are trying to tell you that's too close to the ground. It will get beat up by pushing the lawn mower along side it or by the weed whacker... or grass will grow up above the siding. Dirt will splash on the siding when it rains. Don't think 2" of gravel will help much. But I guess it's your shed... can't make you do anything you don't see the wisdom of.

I guess if you don't want to raise the siding up, go with larry's advice and the z-flashing, and guess you will have to ignore your siding instructions that say 6" minimum to grade.
 
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Old 07-27-16, 06:16 AM
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What about using a pvc trim board along the bottom? I really don't want to add to the cost of this with a block foundation.
 
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Old 07-27-16, 06:35 AM
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**** my obsessive ocd'ness is going to make me do a block foundation and im going to hate myself or love myself for it in the end.. I'll have to modify the back wall I built and turn it into the front wall now but ok.
 
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Old 07-27-16, 06:43 AM
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As time goes by I expect you'll be glad you used block

I'll have to modify the back wall I built and turn it into the front wall now but ok.
Could you further explain that statement?
 
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Old 07-27-16, 10:12 AM
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A pvc skirt with a z-flashing over the top would work, but it will still get scraped up and dirt will splash up on it. If you go with block, you can get 4", 6", or 8" block. I would lay them out, mark where your 1/2" threaded rod needs to go, then drill the holes for that and epoxy it in, leaving enough stick out so you can get a washer and nut on your sill plate.

Then you will drop your blocks down over the threaded rod as you mortar them down. Fill the core solid where the threaded rod is located. (<12" from corners and ends and no more than 6' on center everywhere else)
 
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Old 07-27-16, 12:07 PM
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So I was fortunate enough that my friend who lays bricks for a living called in sick today but felt ok enough to come by and assist on my small job. He was originally just going to coach me but I was painfully slow I'm guessing and ended up taking over part way through.

I used 4" wide blocks that were 8" high. That way I don't lose any floor space. Left a 40 in opening for the door. Used L bolts spaced essentially every 3-4' or so and about 12" from the corners .

Scorching hot today so I'll go back out later and work on the walls again.

Regarding the wall statement. The rear wall was going to be about 8'ft and the front wall about 9 ft. Its going to have the roof slope to the rear. I framed the back wall already. On the blocks its going to be to high. So I'll have to pop off the top plate and cut it shorter.
 
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Old 07-27-16, 12:19 PM
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Extra head room is always nice if the permit office doesn't object.
 
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Old 07-27-16, 07:47 PM
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Another question on a different topic.

I was planning on using those engineered wood panels like these

https://www.lowes.ca/treated-wood-si...m=Siding-House

Would you just put these right on the studs? Or would you go OSB, house wrap then panels?
 
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Old 07-27-16, 08:31 PM
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You can do it either way if your code permits it. If you do skip the sheathing, the walls should be braced to keep them square, (such as with Simpson TWB12) and the wrb is applied directly to the studs. Just don't miss the stud with your hammer tacker. (Rrrrrrrrippppp!)

From LP:

• LP Smartside panel siding may be applied over sheathed
walls or, where building codes permit, directly to studs spaced no
greater than 16 in. O.C. that have adequate corner bracing.
 
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Old 07-28-16, 06:08 AM
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I plan to double the top plate.... with osb and house wrap she would be more water proof though. I'll think bout it today while finishing framing.
 

Last edited by mopar44o; 07-28-16 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 07-28-16, 04:34 PM
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Squaring a wall means putting a diagonal brace on it to prevent it from racking. You need to use bracing when you don't use the sheathing to square it. Exterior/load bearing walls need double top plates.
 
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Old 08-07-16, 06:37 PM
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Well all thats left to do is the door to build and some shelves... But here's a few shots.

Exterior
https://www.dropbox.com/s/trqbud0mn6...A0006.jpg?dl=0

Roof

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zrntrtgls1...4_Pro.jpg?dl=0

stores my lawnmower, snowblower, two sets of snow tires and still roof for a work bench.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ku14qmhku6...ro_LI.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2k4ltmo3je...ro_LI.jpg?dl=0


Plan to put a 10 foot shelf over the door from wall to wall to store most of my power tools and then hang most of my gardening tools.
 
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Old 08-07-16, 06:47 PM
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Hey, nice job... that looks great.

You might want to put some hurricane ties on both ends of those rafters, just to reinforce that connection. Glad you raised it up with the blocks. The bottom edge of your siding will last a lot longer that way, and it will be easier to keep it painted.
 
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Old 08-07-16, 08:01 PM
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I thought about the hurricane ties... They're nailed pretty good. I did about 3 , 3in nails on each end.


I hope the there's enough vents with the soffit vents. I can always add more vent If I had to.

We had an issue with the 4 in blocks. A few popped loose. I think its because they're so narrow there may of been issues with them bonding. PL helped cure it.
 
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Old 08-07-16, 08:09 PM
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Building on them too soon or a weak mortar mix wouldn't have helped either. And wider blocks have more stability.
 
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Old 08-07-16, 08:28 PM
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Used type S mix. It was a 2 days after I think... Either way they seem rock solid now.
 
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