Garage heater for occasional use

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Old 11-07-16, 04:08 PM
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Garage heater for occasional use

I have a single car attached garage non-heated. I would like to buy some type of heating unit that will be used only occasionally when doing odd jobs in their etc. My biggest concern is safety being it is an attached garage, so my main objective is to get something that I can leave on for say a few hours if needed to take off the chill a bit. Doesn't need to by hot just comfortable. Any suggestions are welcome.

Paul
 
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Old 11-08-16, 03:33 AM
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I suggest the Buddy Heater (Propane fueled).

Buddy Series - Heaters - Product

They have a large variety to chose from.

They heat fast. Are very portable and economical. Can be turned on and off quickly.

Propane burns clean and need little or no ventilation...However, it is recommended that you crack the door open slightly or allowed fresh air to enter periodically.
 
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Old 11-08-16, 04:46 AM
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I also think one of the "jet engine" type heater would be a good option. Propane would be the best as there is minimal/no smell or soot and it can blow the heat where you need it most. They are available in a variety of sizes and powerful enough to quickly heat a garage.

 
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Old 11-08-16, 10:55 AM
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Thanks, I'll take a look at that.
 
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Old 11-08-16, 11:17 AM
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Propane heaters are very effective. They make use of those BBQ tanks that are lying around in the winter.

I have one like Dane describes. It's 35kBtu. It connects to a BBQ propane tank with a 10' rubber hose and regulator. It's also fan forced. Would heat a single car garage in 10-15 minutes.

I also have two of these.... a two head like posted and a three head. They come with a bracket that attaches to the top of a BBQ tank. You can light one or all of the heads. These heat the surrounding area quickly. I use them for outdoors work too. Especially for working on my van that won't fit in the garage.

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  #6  
Old 11-09-16, 01:29 PM
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I am guessing that the radiant heater and "jet engine" heaters pictured are designed for outdoor use.

If so, they shouldn't be used indoors.

Use an outdoor heater indoors and you can make A LOT of carbon monoxide in a short period of time if things aren't working properly. Close the garage door and you sharply limit combustion air, which can easily start making a lot of CO.

I wonder if the radiant heater wouldn't be a likely source of ignition for a fire with gasoline and grease around?

You want heat in a garage and having a vented heater is by far the safest option.

In short, install and operate gas appliances as specified by the manufacturer.
 
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Old 11-09-16, 01:43 PM
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THe pictured and/or referenced heaters are not strictly outdoor units . They can be used indoors and are great for the garage use.
 
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Old 11-09-16, 05:36 PM
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Anything that burns fuel (propane, kerosene, etc.) will produce Carbon monoxide. These should not be used inside the home. A garage would be the exception as they are often drafty which will let in fresh air.

Another option is a parabolic electric heater.
 
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Old 11-09-16, 09:19 PM
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Both of the listed heaters can be used indoors as Norm said. You can see that by looking at the manuals on the various makers websites. Not sure I'd want to use the torpedo in a living space. I know the old ones I've used were crazy noisy. Of course those were 200Kbtu kerosene burners on wheels. Designed for outdoor and construction use.

I'm have a single tank-top radiant (pretty mild winters here, so it's plenty) and it takes maybe an hour to warm up a double garage space. Of course if I aim it at my working area, that helps a lot. I found using a fan aimed at the ceiling helps circulate the heat lost upwards by convection. Very clean burning, but you still need the crack the garage door open a bit, or open a window or man-door slightly.

The torpedo type would warm an average garage in 15 min or so as PJ said.

With both types, no sanding, painting or using volatile chemicals during operation. And before re-igniting or on initial startup, you would need to ventilate well to remove any residual fumes.

Many of these heaters have tip-over switches, overheat, and oxygen sensors, but the best safety is the one between your ears. Unfortunately not all of those work real well and that's why every winter you read about people using these and the old kerosene style for primary heat in their home. They are normally found by the fire or police departments when somebody says they haven't seen them in 3 days.

I guess the electric parabolic radiant would be safest, but depending on electric rates may not be the most economical. They are also more of a spot heater unless you get the huge ones, which might require a dedicated circuit. I never understood why home centers and smaller warehouse places have those (or natural gas maybe?) mounted right above the roll-up doors. You get a burst of heat entering or exiting but they don't do a lot for the rest of the space.
 
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Old 11-10-16, 03:42 AM
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With both types, no sanding, painting or using volatile chemicals during operation. And before re-igniting or on initial startup, you would need to ventilate well to remove any residual fumes.
Vic, very good point. Wish I said that.

I never understood why home centers and smaller warehouse places have those (or natural gas maybe?) mounted right above the roll-up doors. You get a burst of heat entering or exiting but they don't do a lot for the rest of the space.
Space is the biggest concern and providing as much overhead space for storage. Wev have one on the opposite side of the overhead door at my work place. It's always a challenge to avoid hitting it with the tow-motor when lifting items high.
 
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Old 11-10-16, 12:33 PM
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If I were you, I wouldn't be interested in "what Norm said." I'd be interested in what the manufacturer's instruction manual says.


My experience in being the first responder to many hundreds of carbon monoxide hazard complaints for a gas utility is that people commonly have no idea of the hazards and risks they run with unvented equipment used in a dwelling.


Using "common sense" to decide when you can safely use unvented equipment (wood, gas propane, charcoal, whatever) is a formula for getting someone injured or killed.

READ, UNDERSTAND and follow ALL the manufacturers warnings before using such equipment!
 
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Old 11-10-16, 01:22 PM
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SeattlePioneer,

I agree with you. The manufactures info is the best info to use. As far as my say so goes, I own one and I sell them. I think that should be sufficient to qualify my statements.

Also if you read my 1st post you will see that I did recommended ventilation and Vic made it a point to make sure full venting is made prior to re-igniting any unit that could be in the area of volatile or combustible fumes or vapor such as a garage environment.

When I make a statement I will qualify if it's opinion or my best recommendation. Besides any wrong info by a poster will quickly be corrected by the experts.

[h=2]product details for the BUDDY HEATER (note: uses)[/h] [TABLE="class: data-table"]
[TR="class: first odd"]
[TH="class: label"]BTU per Hour[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]4,000/9,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TH="class: label"]Heating Area (Sq Ft)[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]225[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TH="class: label"]Tank Capacity (Min)[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]1# Propane Cylinder[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TH="class: label"]Run Time (Hrs at Max BTU)[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]3 Hours[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TH="class: label"]Run Time (Hrs at Min BTU)[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]6 Hours[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TH="class: label"]Fuel Consumption/Burn Rate (Gal/Hr)[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]at 4,000 BTU = 0.044 Gal/Hr, at 9,000 BTU = 0.099 Gal/Hr[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TH="class: label"]Electricity Required[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]No[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TH="class: label"]Maximum Elevation (Ft)[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]7000 Ft[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TH="class: label"]Weight (Lbs)[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]10.60[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TH="class: label"]Model[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]MH9BX[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TH="class: label"]Oversized[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]No[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TH="class: label"]Length[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]14.25[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TH="class: label"]Width[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]9.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TH="class: label"]Height[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TH="class: label"]Disclaimer[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]Not for sale in Massachusetts or Canada.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TH="class: label"]Use
[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]Emergency Heat, Tents, Campers, Workshops, Job Sites, Porches, Patios, Decks, Garages, Storage Buildings, Picnics, Tailgate Parties, Construction Trailers, Sporting Events, Barns, Sheds, Hunting Blinds, Shelters, Ice Fishing Shanties
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TH="class: label"]Warranty[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]1 Year Limited[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TH="class: label"]Thermostat[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]No[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TH="class: label"]Safety Tip-Over Switch[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]Yes
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TH="class: label"]Fuel Type[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]Propane[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TH="class: label"]Heat Type[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]Radiant[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TH="class: label"]Oxygen Depletion Sensor (ODS)
[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]Yes
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TH="class: label"]High Limit Safety Shut-off (HLS)[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]No
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even"]
[TH="class: label"]Indoor Safe
[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]Yes
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TH="class: label"]Ignition[/TH]
[TD="class: data last"]Piezo
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: last even"]
[TH="class: label"]Hose & Regulator Included[/TH]
[TD="class: data"]Sold separately[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
  #13  
Old 11-10-16, 02:18 PM
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I never understood why home centers and smaller warehouse places have those (or natural gas maybe?) mounted right above the roll-up doors.
These are known as entrance, or door, heaters. Their purpose is NOT to heat the enclosed area but to limit the air exchange through open doorways. They do this very well and thus limit the amount of heat lost through the open doorways. This in turn lessens the amount of heat needed in the enclosed space.
 
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Old 11-10-16, 03:29 PM
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Dont discount an electric heater.

I have a couple of them and they plug in, heat up, and take the chill out of a small area.

They do not heat the entire garage, they are sturdy, I dont have to refill, and I picked them up for $10 at a garage sale.
 
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Old 11-10-16, 03:53 PM
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Furd, just seems odd. Air curtains I understand, but heat curtains? I believe you though.

SP...you said in your 1st post (#6) "I'm guessing...". So apparently you've never owned or used one of these heaters? As I and others stated, it's right on the manufacturers website and in the manuals about their uses and precautions that need to be taken.

People have been known to use gas stoves and fans to try to heat a room, properly installed and inspected and everything. Do people read all the warnings, probably not. Esp when it's one small paragraph under the safety section, no big bold letters or highlighting (at least in the 2 I looked at). Look at a heater manual. Big bold letters in a box with exclamation points, hazard triangles, etc. Takes up most of the first 2.5 pages, not buried somewhere at the bottom of the 2nd page like the appliance manuals I saw.

I guess it's just a thinning of the herd type thing. Common sense is getting more and more uncommon IMO.
 
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Old 11-10-16, 05:46 PM
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I've come close to buying a propane-fired torpedo heater a few times in the last year or so. I see them on Craig's List with asking prices from about $25 to about $100 depending on size. I would like something that would heat up fast but the problem with any non-vented combustion heater is the amount of water vapor they discharge along with the heated air. I already live in a high humidity environment and don't need even more moisture to rust my tools.

Last year, or maybe early this year, I forget, I bought a 5.6 kW electric heater. It uses 240 volts on a 30 ampere circuit and at my winter electrical rate will cost about 50 cents an hour to operate. My biggest downside is that my main furnace is also in the garage and takes its combustion air from the space. That means that it will be taking that electrically heated air to burn the gas and then shooting it all up the chimney. I really need to partition off the furnace and give it an outside air source.
 
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Old 11-11-16, 03:50 AM
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I really need to partition off the furnace and give it an outside air source.
That is a very good idea. All new furnace installs now use outside combustion air. If your furnace is more than 15 to 20 years old it might be worth getting a new one.
 
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Old 11-11-16, 09:52 AM
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My furnace is about ten years old, I replaced the original because it made no economic sense to me to spend almost the same amount of money to patch it as a new (low efficiency) model would have cost. I went with an 80% AFUE rather than a 90+% AFUE model because with the mild winters in my area the higher efficiency models simply do not provide a payback over the life of the furnace.

So, I could replace it with a 90+% model but it is far less expensive to put a couple of vent grilles in the outside wall and two small interior walls. The hardest part is that I need to clean out the garage first. Heck, it is going to take me an hour or more just to move enough junk to allow me to change the silly filter.
 
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Old 11-12-16, 11:55 AM
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<<SP...you said in your 1st post (#6) "I'm guessing...". So apparently you've never owned or used one of these heaters? As I and others stated, it's right on the manufacturers website and in the manuals about their uses and precautions that need to be taken.>>


That's right, I haven't used this equipment. I was recommending that you read, understand and follow the manufacturer's specifications for using unvented equipment indoors. If you do that, fine!


But it's my experience that unvented equipment often comes with an EXTENSIVE list of warnings and limitations, and frankly I have NEVER encountered a person with such equipment who has read, understood and followed all those instructions all the time.

Having someone ELSE read those instructions doesn't count!

<<People have been known to use gas stoves and fans to try to heat a room, properly installed and inspected and everything. Do people read all the warnings, probably not. >>


VENTED gas equipment has FAR greater safety margins than unvented equipment!

I have, on several occasions, found that a dirty pilot light on a gas range was making enough CO in an apartment to make people sick.

Using range burners to heat a dwelling again runs the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning as well as starting a fire.

The risk of using any kind of combustion that isn't reliably vented to the outdoors is SIGNIFICANT! The margin of safety can be small, and the risk of injury or death is significant!

People ROUTINELY underestimate the hazard of carbon monoxide poisoning. They just don't understand the risks.

<<I agree with you. The manufactures info is the best info to use. As far as my say so goes, I own one and I sell them. I think that should be sufficient to qualify my statements. >>


It is NOT, in my opinion. I invite you to post links to one or more manufacturer's operating instructions for me to read. I'd expect that there are a variety of warnings and limitations about how such equipment can be used indoors safely. People must follow ALL such directions, and having someone else say "no problem!" is NOT adequate when you are talking about the lives and safety of a family, in my opinion.

You are selling this stuff. I have had extensive experience with how a wide variety of such equipment is actually used.
 
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Old 11-13-16, 05:52 AM
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I invite you to post links to one or more manufacturer's operating instructions for me to read.
Sure thing. However, considering who I'm talking to, I must preface with a few words. Yes, there are all kinds of warnings. No they are not allowed in the state of MA. and are restricted in Canada. It clearly says for occasional recreational use not permanent in home use. They also state that ventilation must be provided. BLA, BLA, BLA

The point being is like everything else reasonable caution and care must be used. Any combustible fuel using appliance has nearly all the safe warnings, including your typical gas range, dryer etc... A car is an enclosed space that has carbon monoxide being spewed all over the place. But with proper care we use it without incident.

Please read the OP's original post and my reply. He said occasional use and I said make sure there is ventilation.

Here's one.
http://www.mrheater.com/downloads/dl...l_usa_2016.pdf

In fact I'll do one better for you. Here other sites that may make you feel better about what heater can and can't be used indoors.

From the manufacture.
Blog - Why can the Buddy heaters be used indoors safely?


This site, go about half way down and there you will see a pic that clearly states what kind of heater is indoor safe.

Know the difference between indoor-safe and outdoor only propane heaters | CampSafe!

By your standards I would suggest you do not buy your children or grandchildren toys whatsoever. They are dangerous. All toys come with warnings. There is danger in everything.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, i'm saying the OP asked for advice, which shows me he is intelligent and reasonable and we gave him reasonable advice with cautions.

Your points are well taken but to say no propane heater should never be used indoors in not correct.

PS... not only do I sell it, I use it!
 

Last edited by Norm201; 11-13-16 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 11-13-16, 03:07 PM
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Yes, I looked up rea, and understood the extensive list of warnings and directions provided by the manufacturer.

Just as I've described, you refuse to take those warnings seriously (blah, blah, blah)


Canada prohibits many unvented applainces because they recognize that there are a lot of fools who don't pay attention to warnings and can get injured or killed because of it.
 
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Old 11-13-16, 03:42 PM
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Chill. No one said we or I don't take them seriously. Why would you even think that? You ask for a reference and I gave it to you.
Look, no one is more safety conscience than I. At work they make fun of me because I won't let anything pass that might cause injury. So don't pontificate unless you know who you're talking too. My use of the BLA thing was to avoid typing all the safety concerns. I assumed (correctly I hope) you can read?

You made your point, you're super safety man. I get it. You're right, I'm wrong. It's good. No hard feelings.
 
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Old 11-14-16, 06:17 PM
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<<This site, go about half way down and there you will see a pic that clearly states what kind of heater is indoor safe.>>


The problem is, these heaters are "indoor safe" ONLY if all the warnings and directions are followed, and they usually are not.

Frankly, the margin of safety is so small and the warning so widely ignored that describing these heaters as "indoors safe" is misleading.

They bare more to be warned against than recommended, which is what I do.
 
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Old 11-15-16, 04:37 AM
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In all seriousness, what is your take on natural gas used in most homes to fuel their ranges and those homes without NG and use propane to run their ranges? Also most mobil homes use propane. True a stove top range may not be in use as a heater is but still.
 
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Old 11-16-16, 04:13 PM
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My, I can tell you about gas ranges!


I recall the multiple gas ranges being used in a restaurant. The manager had shut off the exhaust vent because it was sucking all that warm air out of the restaurant which meant that cold air was flooding into the restaurant.

Only problem was that several burners on the rangetop were dirty and making carbon monoxide, which was flooding off the front of the exhaust hood right into the faces of the cooks, who were just about out of it with carbon monoxide poisoning.

THEY went to the hospital.

I found ranges in small apartments on two occasions where a dirty pilot light was making enough CO to make the occupants sick.

Any fuel burning appliance id a possible carbon monoxide hazard.

I've seen generators used outdoors where the exhaust gasses keep blowing against the side of a house and infiltrating the dwelling space with CO.

The biggest hazard is typically in warehouses, where fork lifts can be operated when out of tune and making LOTS of CO ---- enough to make a big warehouse of people sick.

Unfortunately, lots of people underestimate the carbon monoxide hazard of fuel burning appliances they use.

Unvented heating equipment has a NARROW margin of safety, MUCH narrower than that for vented gas equipment. And people often turn on heating equipment and let it run for hours --- plenty of time for a CO problem to become a real hazard.

Once upon a time, I was plaintiff's witness in the case of a homeowner who moved into a brand new residence. They turned on their unvented gas fireplace and fortunately someone took them to the hospital before the CO killed them.

When I examined the fireplace, I found that the QUITE COMPLICATED instructions on how to arrange the gas logs hadn't been followed by the installer, who had simply arranged them intuitively.

When I arranged the logs according to the manufacturer's instructions, CO level was negligible.

With vented equipment, that would have mattered much. But with that particular fireplace, the improperly arranged gas logs were making quite a bit of CO, which was going right into the living room where the new owner was dozing before the fire. She was lucky she wasn't killed.

The insurance companies paid off without a trial after I gave a deposition on that one.
 
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Old 11-16-16, 05:55 PM
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Thank God for CO2 alarms and Amanda's Law.

I may have related this story here once before. Hits close to home.

My son-in-law and daughter live several houses down from me. They have lived there about 10 years and the house is about 30 years old. They are the 2nd owners. Several Christmas's ago, one of those Christmas's that was very warm that hardly a coat was needed, we had Christmas Eve dinner there. Because the weather was so warm my daughter opened the kitchen window to help cool things from cooking. About 20 minutes later the 2nd story CO2 alarms started going off. Not just once but over and over. Because the alarm was so persistent both my Son-in-law and I agreed to call the fire chief. Of course when a call goes out for CO2 poisoning or a fire everybody comes out including fire trucks and rescue squad. Quite the scene. When the Fire Chief used his CO2 detector it went off the scale. He calls the gas company because they have more sensitive equipment. When they arrived their detector also was nearly off the scale. Gas service shut off and sealed. It seemed that the strange and different air currents concentrated the CO2 in the upper floors and kids bedroom

Apparently the boiler/heating system was properly installed but the exhaust system was either changed or tampered with at some point. It cost my Son-in-law $1500 to get corrected. Cheap price for not having a loss of life. Surprised the CO2 never concentrated enough in one spot before to cause any real harm.

I have a CO2 alarm on every floor and encourage every customer at the store that buy a heater (any kind) to buy or at least check their CO2 alarms.
 
  #27  
Old 11-16-16, 07:02 PM
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A couple of corrections.

SeattlePioneer

With vented equipment, that would have mattered much.
I'm sure you meant to write would NOT have mattered...

Norm201
Thank God for CO2 alarms...
CO[SUB]2[/SUB] is carbon dioxide and it would be extremely rare to see a CO[SUB]2[/SUB] alarm in a residence. You meant to write CO, carbon monoxide.
 
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Old 11-16-16, 08:40 PM
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Thanks for both corrections, Furd.
 
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Old 11-17-16, 03:32 AM
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Yea, what was I thinking?
 
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