Carrier Furnace wont stay on


  #1  
Old 02-07-17, 11:30 AM
Johnzapf's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 12
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Carrier Furnace wont stay on

I have a Carrier Model 58PAV090-16.

it will come on, ignite and run for a few seconds and go off. Red LED, 3 blinks then 4 more. I cleaned flame censer, and then replaced it and still no change. The flame looks good. I have checked all wire to make sure connections are good. Not sure what to try next.

exhaust fan is working, and I turned on the AC and blower is working, all that works fine.

John
 
  #2  
Old 02-07-17, 02:16 PM
S
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 1,771
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
You might be looking at a faulty gas valve. Make sure the flame sensor is fully engulfed in the flame. Do you have a voltmeter?
 

Last edited by skaggsje; 02-07-17 at 02:50 PM. Reason: added
  #3  
Old 02-07-17, 04:42 PM
Johnzapf's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 12
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I am sure the gas is fine. and yes I have a voltage meter.
 
  #4  
Old 02-07-17, 04:52 PM
Johnzapf's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 12
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
a little history, I live in a track home, the neighbor to the left and to the right have the same furnace and no problems. But, they use there furnace every year, I don't use so much and it has been over a year since I used.
 
  #5  
Old 02-07-17, 07:08 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,521
Received 94 Upvotes on 87 Posts
The hot surface ignitor is usually on the opposite burner than the flame sensor. Does the flame carry over to the last burner?

The crossover between the burners may require cleaning. I have seen mud divers cause problems with this.

The ignitor is very fragile. Do not touch it with the brush.



Is the face of the furnace that gets exposed to the flame coated with the white powder that the burner can create? This may also require cleaning.

Some meters are able to measure flame rectification. If you get a meter that can measure micro amps DC and interrupt the circuit to the flame sensor with your meter, you can measure the flame rectification.

The diagnostic chart may state a minimum of .5 micro amps but I would expect between 3.5 an 5 micro amps DC.



Your control board is sending voltage to the flame sensor wire and measuring current to ground.

Verify that the ground screw is connected to the furnace and the connection is clean. I would clean and check these 3 screws as well as the green wire connection to the burner manifold.

 
  #6  
Old 02-08-17, 01:45 PM
Johnzapf's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 12
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Got 11.20 volts going to the flame sensor. all grounds look are good, clean and tight.

no white powder, all burners burn even and blue. I have not been up on the roof to check the b-vent
Name:  IMG_4001.jpg
Views: 1003
Size:  37.5 KBName:  IMG_4002.jpg
Views: 1066
Size:  37.8 KBName:  IMG_3998.jpg
Views: 1036
Size:  46.8 KBName:  IMG_3999.jpg
Views: 1824
Size:  41.1 KB
 
  #7  
Old 02-08-17, 03:59 PM
S
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 1,771
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Shouldn't have any voltage going to the flame sensor. You need to measure microamps (um).
 

Last edited by skaggsje; 02-08-17 at 04:04 PM. Reason: correction
  #8  
Old 02-09-17, 10:25 AM
Johnzapf's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 12
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I have read that, but will have to figure out how to use this meter to measure micro amps. and yes with the furnace on or off there is 15.90 volts going to the flame senor. Cant detect any micro amps but not sure if I am doing that right.
 

Last edited by Johnzapf; 02-09-17 at 10:46 AM.
  #9  
Old 02-09-17, 01:16 PM
S
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 1,771
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
How are you measuring the sensor? Send us the meter model number or pic and we can see if it can read microamps.
 
  #10  
Old 02-09-17, 04:00 PM
Johnzapf's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 12
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
picture of the wavetek 15XL is below.

I am sure its just from lack of use. I live in southern California, and in the past 20 year I have turned on 10 times. Just like the AC. when I went to use a few years ago it didn't work, I had to replace the condensing unit. But same thing, the house only hits 80 once or twice every couple years, so if never used.
 

Last edited by Johnzapf; 02-09-17 at 06:10 PM.
  #11  
Old 02-10-17, 07:02 AM
S
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 1,771
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Yes that meter will read microamps.
 
  #12  
Old 02-10-17, 01:28 PM
Johnzapf's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 12
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
ok then, like I have said I don't detect any micro amps, only 15-16 volts on the wire going to the flame sensor.
 

Last edited by Johnzapf; 02-10-17 at 02:27 PM.
  #13  
Old 02-10-17, 06:58 PM
M
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Jose,Ca
Posts: 1,277
Upvotes: 0
Received 3 Upvotes on 3 Posts
If my memory serves me (I never know) that module was a problem. Try wiggling the wires and see if it will come and off and on.
 
  #14  
Old 02-10-17, 07:10 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,521
Received 94 Upvotes on 87 Posts
That meter looks like it can measure micro amps DC if you set the dial like this...

Name:  Wavetek.jpg
Views: 993
Size:  34.7 KB
 
  #15  
Old 02-11-17, 09:18 AM
Johnzapf's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 12
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I did exactly like you said, then turned on furnace it cycled, and meter remains at 00.0

unplug the furnace, reseated all the wires, checked everything, plugged back in and tried again, same thing, meter reads 00.0 and never changes.

then red LED, 3 fast blinks pause 4 slow slow blinks
 

Last edited by Johnzapf; 02-11-17 at 10:33 AM.
  #16  
Old 02-11-17, 10:55 AM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,521
Received 94 Upvotes on 87 Posts
Move the black lead over one port on the meter.
It should give you the reading after ignition.
Did you ever get ignition in your test?
 
  #17  
Old 02-11-17, 11:19 AM
Johnzapf's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 12
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
ok, moved the black lead over one and tried. same thing. stays a 00.0 even once the burners light.

yes will ignite for 3 seconds then go off and try gain, a few times. I turn it off before it locks out.

FYI, nice Photoshop work on the meter pic, that helped a lot.

Name:  IMG_0154.jpg
Views: 1074
Size:  47.6 KB
 
  #18  
Old 02-11-17, 11:45 AM
Johnzapf's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 12
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
When I set the meter to DC volts I get this. waiting to ignite.

Name:  IMG_0158.jpg
Views: 1003
Size:  45.0 KB

After ignition, and the number is always changing.

Name:  IMG_0160.jpg
Views: 880
Size:  46.7 KB

Anything else I can do or try?
 
  #19  
Old 02-11-17, 05:20 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,521
Received 94 Upvotes on 87 Posts
Name:  Wavetek amps.jpg
Views: 918
Size:  53.2 KB

I couldn't see which meter terminal is COM It should be the 2 middle ports but you still want the uA setting on the dial.



The ICM control board will be much cheaper than an OEM. It's usually fine but I have seen a new one fail to satisfy with 2 microamps DC present. I installed the OEM and measured 5 uA DC.
 

Last edited by Houston204; 02-11-17 at 08:04 PM.
  #20  
Old 02-13-17, 09:54 AM
Johnzapf's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 12
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Like this? remains at 00.0 the entire cycle.

Name:  IMG_4005.jpg
Views: 809
Size:  44.2 KB
 
  #21  
Old 02-13-17, 09:54 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,521
Received 94 Upvotes on 87 Posts
Yep, that should have given you a reading.
 
  #22  
Old 02-15-17, 04:24 PM
Johnzapf's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 12
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
So now what, I don't know the part number(s) of the parts I need to fix or where to get the best price.
 
  #23  
Old 02-15-17, 04:44 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,521
Received 94 Upvotes on 87 Posts
While I believe that your meter is faulty, I still think that it is a bad control board.

The part number is on your control board.

From the pictures it does not appear that your control board is the older model with the Edge pin connector.

I am a big fan of Amazon for ordering almost anything online.

Enter your part number to find the cost and availability.

The replacement will probably be this kit unless it is the older model with the edge pin connector....


The OEM is $177.
The ICM clone is $121

Verify if the harness connects to the edge of the board ( like a Nintendo game cartridge) or if the harness connects to the face of the board.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: