Installing a light fixture from receptacle.


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Old 12-05-16, 11:32 AM
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Installing a light fixture from receptacle.

Hello everyone. I would like to install a simple light fixture and switch in my basement storage/laundry room. The room itself is small and unfinished, meaning no drywall and just wood rafters and concrete floors etc. There was a light bulb in here when i moved in but it was simply a socket and bulb hooked up via extension cord to the receptacle. I would like to tap into the receptacle in picture but thought maybe a couple pointers never hurt. Like which cable could i splice and junction box to go to fixture? 2 diff cables and i assume one feeds receptacle and then leaves and continues onwards. But i am not familiar with what is below the receptacle or quite how to begin.Name:  20161205_112101.jpg
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Old 12-05-16, 12:51 PM
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You probably have one cable in and one cable out. You would add a third cable to the box. The four black wires would be connected to a pigtail and the pigtail to the receptacle. The four white wires would be connected to a pigtail and the pigtail to the receptacle. The new would go to a switch then from the switch a cable to the light.

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Last edited by ray2047; 12-05-16 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 12-05-16, 02:52 PM
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Is this set up on the ceiling?first thing is to remove that door bell transformer and install it correctly,I would remove that box and install a 4"round box with a Porclin pull chain fixture,reroute the 2 cables into the box and install that bell transformer into one of the 1/2" KO's,if you need an outlet simply use a 1/2" nipple between them.
 
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Old 12-06-16, 12:52 AM
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The receptacle is not on the ceiling sorry the pic turned wrong way when uploading. it is actually just on the middle of the wall. I also assumed that it was a in and out cable meant to simply have a receptacle in that room. Not sure why a light was not installed also but I know how to do that. I don't see a problem feeding the light first and then running a switch leg further down the room to where the entry way is right? I have some boxes and switches and was just going to put a simple plastic light fixture and bulb. I did not know that was a doorbell transformer though, or that it was not installed correctly either so I will definitely check that out as well. I appreciate the replies as always. Would I be better off using a damp location box for the light or does that matter? Just because there is a actual stackable wash/dryer in that room. And one further question since it is the basement and unfinished am I okay with using flexible metal conduit wiring?
 
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Old 12-06-16, 01:21 AM
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I don't see a problem feeding the light first and then running a switch leg further down the room to where the entry way is right?
Under latest code you must have a neutral at the switch box (when using cable). That means you can no longer use a 2-conductor cable for a switch loop. It must be a 3-conductor cable. Bringing power to the switch first means you don't saves you the extra expense of 3-conductor cable.
I did not know that was a doorbell transformer though, or that it was not installed correctly
You have exposed line voltage wires not in conduit or a sheath. Most door bell transformers have a nipple that fits in a knockout of a box.

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Old 12-06-16, 03:03 AM
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Thanks Ray. Here in Canada i believe the mandatory neutral is also code. I didn't think of the switch first as the receptacle is on far side of room and the light would be placed in middle approximately with the switch closer to the doorway. However I can definitely make it work like you said. And i dont have much experience with the doorbell wiring and transformer but I do see what you mean after closer inspection. I will do my research and do my best to fix it as well. Its just one of the many questionable wiring jobs I have found in this older house thus far.
 
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Old 12-06-16, 05:02 AM
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In the U.S. usually if you use conduit for the switch loop no neutral needed. (If I understand the NEC correctly neutral is only required if it can't be easily added later if needed.) CEC and your AHJ may differ.
 
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Old 12-06-16, 05:02 PM
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In a conduit system the NEC does not require the neutral at the switch as it can be installed later.
 
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Old 12-06-16, 10:38 PM
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Yes this room is pretty much wood framing and concrete. The wiring is easily accessible if changes are needed. I did find what I believe to be another doorbell transformer in the ceiling. This one was threaded into the 1/2 inch knockout in the box but it still seems the wiring is exposed? But this might of been part of the original install also many many years ago. I know that somethings are grandfathered as they were legal and such back in the day. So a transformer "nipple" is basically just the ability and piece that threads onto the knock out? Name:  20161206_171534.jpg
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Old 12-07-16, 07:33 AM
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but it still seems the wiring is exposed?
Low voltage wiring does not need to be in a a sheath or conduit.
 
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Old 12-18-16, 07:44 PM
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So with the first door bell transformer could i just put the 2 wires inside some metal conduit as I don't think there is a nipple like the other one has
 
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Old 12-18-16, 09:07 PM
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could i just put the 2 wires inside some metal conduit
There would probably have to be a way to connect the conduit to the transformer and there isn't.
 
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Old 12-19-16, 05:52 PM
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Okay I have run the cables and installed ceiling octagon box and the cable from there to the doorway where gang box is fastened. I have not connected any wires as of yet. This is the receptacle and wiring inside. Just thought i would double check how to begin. I do think they have connected the hot and neutrals (black and whites) to wrong sides of receptacle? Also a pigtail would of been probably better then they installed it. I cut away the doorbell transformer wires. My next step would be connecting all blacks and whites (not to each other) and pigtail to terminals on receptacle right? Thus feeding powef to outlet, fixture and onwards..Name:  20161219_173620.jpg
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Old 12-19-16, 06:55 PM
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I do think they have connected the hot and neutrals (black and whites) to wrong sides of receptacle?
Yes. It is black to brass, white to silver.
My next step would be connecting all blacks and whites (not to each other) and pigtail to terminals on receptacle right?
Yes.
 
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Old 12-19-16, 07:47 PM
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The receptacle is required to be a GFCI type.
 
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Old 12-20-16, 12:01 AM
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The outlet needs to be gfci? I wasn't aware of this and I am not replacing or really installing a receptacle. The receptacle in place has probably been there much longer then that code has even. However i will look into it as I know its a semi laundry room, and i do have a couple gfci laying around if need be. Is that required in the usa?
 
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Old 12-20-16, 03:08 AM
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Well I managed to get it all working for now will have to check on the gfci requirement tho. Also the doorbell transformer is as it was until I figure out a better spot or idea what to do with it. I have extra wire and such what woukd be a easy fix. Name:  20161220_010739.jpg
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Old 12-20-16, 07:41 AM
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until I figure out a better spot or idea what to do with it.
Just replace it with one that meets current code. They are only a few dollars.

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https://www.amazon.com/IQ-America-Do.../dp/B0083WET2C
 
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Old 12-21-16, 05:07 PM
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If i wanted 1 more light fixture near doorway can i just pigtail off the power feeding the first fixture and run wire to it from that one. They both would still be controlled by the switch loop and same switch right?
 
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Old 12-21-16, 05:51 PM
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If i wanted 1 more light fixture near doorway can i just pigtail off the power feeding the first fixture and run wire to it from that one. They both would still be controlled by the switch loop and same switch right?
Yes, that is correct.
.
 
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Old 12-22-16, 12:21 AM
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It worked like a charm thanks again. Now we can see the light...literally
 
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Old 12-22-16, 02:48 PM
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If my uneducated assumption is right, I cannot install a leviton occupancy motion switch with the existing switch leg I just installed. I would have to run the wire to switch first so that a neutral is present at switch right? Or get the 3 wire + ground wiring right. I dont really want to buy more wire so could i just change where power feeds first? Name:  20161222_144738.jpg
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Old 12-22-16, 05:18 PM
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If my uneducated assumption is right, I cannot install a leviton occupancy motion switch with the existing switch leg I just installed. I would have to run the wire to switch first so that a neutral is present at switch right? Or get the 3 wire + ground wiring right.
Yes, but you were warned and had you followed my diagram for a switch loop which shows xx-3 you would have it. You did not wire it according to current national suggested code. Bring it up to suggested code and you should be fine.
 
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Old 12-22-16, 06:02 PM
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The illuminated switch that is installed right now works and suits me just fine...however when "the boss" suggests you could try this switch...
I didn't follow your original helpful diagram and advice because I simply didnt have the cable to run all the way across room to switch and then all the way back to the fixture. I have since acquired more and can totally do it the way you showed me. (Which I always appreciate good sir!) Or I could leave it as be and have cold suppers for a week haha. As far as code I'm pretty sure we follow your NEC pretty darn closely if not almost the same. But if I run cable to switch first I can then use the motion sensor switch right?
 
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Old 12-22-16, 06:56 PM
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OOps I forgot you were in Canada. Some of what I said may have been wrong. Now you raise a question in my mind. If you use 2-conductor cable for a switch loop are you suppose to use "red Romex" or is red Romex strictly for 240? Red Romex isn't sold here so never even thought about it but if you did you wouldn't have to do like we do and remark a white wire hot.
 
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Old 12-22-16, 10:25 PM
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That's a good point Ray. I will have to check into that. Ive never seen any red wiring in my place but then you kinda know the stuff ive seen and found here. I do believe inside the 240v line that goes to my oven there's red wire inside but never seen any other. Also ive just remarked the minor switch legs I installed. Such a difference in price too buying 14/2 and 14/3 wire :-(. But i would still have to change my setup to what you suggested and the occupancy sensor should work with a neutral at switch right?
 
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Old 12-23-16, 05:53 AM
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Yes it will work with a neutral at the switch.

Just to clarify my earlier ramblings "red romex" is 2-conductor cable with no white, just black, red, ground.
 
 

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