Electric Clutch
#1
07-03-18, 12:10 PM
Electric Clutch
I rebuilt a Kohler 16 Hp engine, and had to remove the electric clutch to get the engine out of a Toro HMR 1600 Model 55620 After the rebuild I must have torqued the retaining bolt too loose, as I lost the bolt, and washers that hold it on. What saved the clutch was the Clutch retainer. After I find the parts Lost , I need to know what the correct torque spec is for the clutch. I also put some never seize compound on the output shaft as after 40 years I could not get the clutch off without taking it apart. Never sieze might not be the right stuff to use. Maybe locktite blue?
#2
07-03-18, 12:15 PM
You MIGHT be able to find the proper specs online, but it will not be easy. I would go the simple route which is a fifth of a turn past "tight" with locktite blue as you mentioned, it will most likely be just fine. Just make sure the hole you are screwing into is not a through-hole before applying any type of compounds, they would likely break down over time (dissolve) and possibly cause problems
#4
07-04-18, 07:57 AM
I got the specs from Jacks small engines Handy Hints. (40 to 60 ft #s depending on the size of the bolt) I have the OEM mounting bolt and an OEM lock washer coming from PartsTree.com. there is another flat washer that goes up against the clutch that they cannot get from the manufacturer. Is this washer grade critical too? Will I be safe enough with a hardware store grade the right ID and OD?
#5
07-11-18, 08:10 AM
I got the torque specs from Toro, 40 ft #s is the right torque. What I didn't get, and didn't know, was that there is no place to hold onto the shaft if you are going to use a torque wrench, unless you remove the top cover and access the flywheel with a flywheel holder (perhaps?) With everything doped up with Loctite and ready to install, I went ahead with cheese"s rec and just hit it with my Milwaukee M18 and ran it up as best as I could. I didn't break anything as far as I know. As soon as the paint dries on the deck, I will have the true test!
#6
07-11-18, 07:16 PM
Remove the spark plug and fill the cylinder with small rope like starter cord leave a little hanging out when you turn the crank the cord will stop the engine as itt cant compress the rope, when finished back it off a little and remove the rope. Have a good one. Geo
#8
07-15-18, 02:59 PM
Clutch Adjustment
I thought I would pull the clutch back off and adjust the required free play between the rotor and the magnet) before I applied torque to the mounting bolt per geos suggestion. I could not get a feeler guage between the two at all. They do rotate against one another but there is a Lot of drag when I try to spin the pulley. I think that whatever is in the clutch that moves when you tighten or loosen the adjustment nuts (3) is frozen up. I have removed the nuts, but cannot get the pulley and the disc it is attached to separated from the clutch. I need a clue as to how, or even if I can do it on an Ogura Clutch circa 1989 . I thought I had it apart years ago when it was frozen to the crankshaft. I thought removing the adjustment nuts allowed the bottom half of the clutch to just drop out with a little nudge from a home made puller, but it sure isn't doing it now! I have the clutch out of the tractor on the bench but need a clue as to whet to do next without destroying anythiing.
Last edited by WML13; 07-15-18 at 03:02 PM. Reason: Verbage
#9
07-15-18, 11:01 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
There is the top piece that is closest to the engine with the bearing and the coil epoxied in it. Next is the dished out piece of clutch that has the flat clutch surface and is keyed to the crankshaft. It is pressed into the bearing of the former part. Then you have the thin flat disk with the pulley on it and another bearing. It might be partway pressed into the middle section. The clearance needs to be between the thin flat disk and the flat surface of the rotating middle section.
It is supposed to have a lot of drag when you spin the pulley... that is the brake. When you engage the clutch, this drag disappears.
It is supposed to have a lot of drag when you spin the pulley... that is the brake. When you engage the clutch, this drag disappears.
#10
07-16-18, 09:18 AM
Your explanation (As always) makes sense, What would you do if you were me about not being able to adjust it to the .012 -.018 clearance the manual requires? I cannot hammer a feeler gauge between the two plates you mention in your reply as it sits. I am thinking about just putting it back in with the correct torque and listening and watching to see what happens unless you have another step for me to try!
#11
07-16-18, 10:37 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
When you loosen the three nuts around the pulley area, there still is no gap? Makes me wonder if it could be rusted together or something. If you can turn the center piece without the pulley dragging, then it will probably work, but if you can't reach in and turn the center part freely, you'll probably have problems using it.
#12
07-17-18, 09:03 AM
Electric Clutch
Correct, I cannot get a gap (where there is supposed to be one) even with the nuts removed from the spring loaded adjustment bolts. I CAN turn the two items against each other, (feels like brake drag) but cannot gap them to ANYTHING. All was working ok until it fell off the crankshaft, and I still have a good reading on the ohm meter. I had a 12 volt source to apply to it on the bench and I could hear the magnet trying to work, but won,t know if it is engaging the ;pulley until I put it back into the machine
#13
07-17-18, 10:10 AM
Forum Topic Moderator
Strange. I guess you'll either have to take it apart and see why or try it and see if it works okay. Watch that it doesn't get super hot when you crank the engine up, if it's dragging.
#14
07-17-18, 07:10 PM
I have a friend who has been my local wizard for things like this in the past. He was able to stop by and take a look. He got the clutch apart and we now have a gap where there should be. The problem is that when we put all the parts back in place and set the gap, when we start to torque down the bolt that holds it on the crankshaft, it tightens up the gap between the rotor and the plate, putting us back where we started. He said if it were him, he would put in the correct number of "thrust"washers (a diameter that is smaller than the large spacer that the bolt holds against the bearing) to prevent the bolt from pulling down the rotor against the plate like it does now because of the extra space that exists there now. We figure that once these thrust washers are in place, we should be able to adjust the spring loaded bolts and nuts that are SUPPOSED to adjust the air gap to spec. I could not find anyone locally who has 1.165 OD and .430 OD thrust washers today, but will try again tomorrow. We could not find a smoking gun inside the clutch that would pinpoint why we lost the adjustment capability, but maybe something will turn up along the way.
#15
07-17-18, 11:46 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
Strange. It shouldn't need anything that wasn't already there. Does this one have a bushing that goes in from the pulley side and bottoms out on the crankshaft? All pieces of the clutch should fit together fully and bottom out with each other and still permit the gap.
#16
07-18-18, 06:36 AM
I agree, I have on my bench all the parts on the breakdown that were lost most recently (no bushing is listed). There is a spacer listed on the breakdown for the clutch itself on the engine side of the pulley that MAY have been lost when the clutch seized to the crankshaft (rust over 40 years) and we put it back together then 2 years ago without it. (The clutch fell out as a unit this time, and nothing on the engine side of the pulley could have been lost) I will have to take the clutch apart to check it, just great. Its the only thing that makes any sense, so I am with you all the way.
#17
07-21-18, 08:57 AM
Cheese i misled you when I said my friend got the clutch apart. He was only able to move get a slight gap between the plates, which I promptly degapped when I torqued it down. This clutch is an Ogura model 255-742X This clutch is not moving at all for me, and I seriously think a small sledge hammer or a torch is not the way to go. I also do not think soaking it in penetrating oil is a good idea either. If I have to beat on something, logic would indicate it to be the internal sleeve that the lower bearing rests on that butts up against the crankshaft, somebody has to have beaten one of these apart safely at some point i would think.
#18
07-21-18, 12:15 PM
Electric Clutch
Cheese, I was able to rig up a reverse press and managed to get the clutch facings apart so I can see them both without destoying anything. The only things I cannot see are Pn 44-8330 "spacer-bearing-pully which, if it rests between the bearing collar and the top rotor bearing might be gone, and 44-8310 Which looks like a snap ring (ring, retaining) an if it is there, it would not be visible without getting the whole top rotor assembly apart.
These parts are in a view for a clutch assembly #54-3200 from www.toro.com Master parts viewer.
My theory now is that if I can put in a ring #44-8330 where I think it goes, it MIGHT be what prevents the clutch from compressing so much that there is no gap. Any thoughts are appreciated..
These parts are in a view for a clutch assembly #54-3200 from www.toro.com Master parts viewer.
My theory now is that if I can put in a ring #44-8330 where I think it goes, it MIGHT be what prevents the clutch from compressing so much that there is no gap. Any thoughts are appreciated..
#19
07-21-18, 09:33 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
If that piece is truly supposed to fit there, it could be the reason for not having a gap. Hard to say for sure, not being able to inspect it in hand, but it sounds like you're on the right track.
#20
07-22-18, 07:58 AM
If no one chimes in, who may have had this same issue, ten bucks and shipping is not too much of a gamble (to see if I am (on the right track) If I can get this all back together, I might do a utube video showing my reverse press. I will share my success level
Thank you for your comments!
Thank you for your comments!
#21
07-24-18, 11:02 AM
Electric Clutch
Well the part I mentioned does not go where it would need to to prevent the loss of adjustment of the air gap. There is not a part or spacer that is SUPPOSED to be where I thought it might go. The clutch is going out of town tomorrow to a guy with experience who will be hopefully be able to get this clutch back into original condition. Is 30 years of service too much to ask lol?
#22
07-24-18, 06:00 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
Lol, that's strange though... after 30 years, the gap should be much bigger from wear, not smaller. I wonder if the leaf springs have warped or bent.
#23
07-24-18, 08:08 PM
We made a spacer that fits perfectly into the tube that the crankshaft comes down into the clutch from the top. Its only about .125" thick but it is enough to allow an air gap in the rotor and magnet facings when the torque is applied to everything. this should also allow me to adjust the air gap to be adjustable with the nuts on the wings that are supposed make the adjustment. It goes together with Loctite blue and 45 ft #s of torque tomorrow to see if we did it right.
#25
07-27-18, 06:23 PM
Electric Clutch Repair
I am happy to report that after installing the Clutch at the proper torque and adjusting it to a .018 air gap, installing the deck and adjusting the belt tension, that everything worked as planned. No smoke, no flying parts, no breakdown and mowed for an hour, tuning things off and on often. It still mystifies me as to what happened to the .125 of steel that disappeared in the area where we put the shim we made (that size) but I used to be 6' tall when I was younger, and now I am only 5'10" I think the two acres of turf I had to mow every week compressed my spine but I am not doing that any more lol. At any rate, I am thinking about patenting some of the tools that I made to remove it in the first place. and had to use again to play around with the different sized shims we ultimately selected one of. So now I am the go to guy in the neighborhood on engines AND Electric Clutches. Could be worse!
Thanks for all the input and advice. every little bit adds up!
Thanks for all the input and advice. every little bit adds up!
