Removing rubber spark plug boot
#1
03-02-16, 12:49 PM
Removing rubber spark plug boot
Ok,, Im about to change my spark plugs, but here is a problem my truck has. when ever truck comes from dealer(new) and then spark plugs has been in there awhile, in my case70k recommend change @ 60k
what happens is the rubber boot(coil) glues itself to the porcelain part of the plug after going through hot and cold cycles. I pulled one plug just to see how hard it would be to get it removed "without" tearing the coil boot. it was alittle tough to pull and when I got it pulled I did noticed there was a small rubber ring that had molded itself to the plug. so I cleaned it and replaced it knowing I am going to replace them now.
Here's my question......to be able to release or break loose the seal it made.
would a warm engine making that rubber warm help break or that seal or leave it cold.. Now in other words would a cold rubber be easier to break from that seal on that plug or warm.,...or does it matter.
what happens is the rubber boot(coil) glues itself to the porcelain part of the plug after going through hot and cold cycles. I pulled one plug just to see how hard it would be to get it removed "without" tearing the coil boot. it was alittle tough to pull and when I got it pulled I did noticed there was a small rubber ring that had molded itself to the plug. so I cleaned it and replaced it knowing I am going to replace them now.
Here's my question......to be able to release or break loose the seal it made.
would a warm engine making that rubber warm help break or that seal or leave it cold.. Now in other words would a cold rubber be easier to break from that seal on that plug or warm.,...or does it matter.
#2
03-02-16, 12:58 PM
Member
Not sure if hot/cold makes a difference, but I hate doing the kind of work on a hot engine; too easy to burn myself on something.
Get yourself one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-51250-Sp.../dp/B0002STS4E
There are also plier type pullers, but they are harder to get into tight spaces....
Get yourself one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-51250-Sp.../dp/B0002STS4E
There are also plier type pullers, but they are harder to get into tight spaces....
#6
03-02-16, 01:08 PM
Well n ot sure if the pliers would work.. I have plenty of room to pull on the coil boot...what the issue is....is that boot has sealed itself or molded itself onto the plug,, and how or best way to break that seal or mold
#8
03-02-16, 01:11 PM
You know Carbide, looking at that puller,, just might work.... I think I will invest in one.. looks like it would help lefting that plug from the bottom..thanks,, I appreciate it on second thought.... I was just visualizing ... there is NO clearance to get it in there. if there is,... it is extremely minimal. but that is the right ide.
#9
03-02-16, 01:17 PM
That's exactly what I had to do when I pulled the one out..twist and pull.. the problem is there is a risk of that boot tearing from stories I read. maybe Im over thinking it.. those coils are like $50ea.. and doesn't require until 120k Im trying to keep from tearing one or 2,3, or 4
#10
03-02-16, 01:19 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
Never used the hook type but I used the pliers type for many years. Be sure to twist boot before pulling off plug.
#11
03-02-16, 01:20 PM
Member
1. Grab boot firmly
2. Start twisting it gently left>right>left>right slowly increasing torque applied
3. At some point boot will release itself. Take it off. Don't worry about small rubber loss.
4. BEFORE INSTALLATION GENEROUSLY LUBRICATE BOOT INSIDE WITH DIELECTRIC GREASE
For some reason you have cheap rubber boots and they simply melt from temperature. Also, I am suspicious that plugs actually run too hot or are overheated otherwise. I have never seen a silicone rubber boot stick to porcelain. I'd join the choir and suggest replacing wires with better quality ones.
2. Start twisting it gently left>right>left>right slowly increasing torque applied
3. At some point boot will release itself. Take it off. Don't worry about small rubber loss.
4. BEFORE INSTALLATION GENEROUSLY LUBRICATE BOOT INSIDE WITH DIELECTRIC GREASE
For some reason you have cheap rubber boots and they simply melt from temperature. Also, I am suspicious that plugs actually run too hot or are overheated otherwise. I have never seen a silicone rubber boot stick to porcelain. I'd join the choir and suggest replacing wires with better quality ones.
#13
03-02-16, 01:30 PM
Interesting... Vehicle is at 70k, I just purchased this vehicle last mo. and recommend maintenance schedule was plugs @ 30k im not sure if previous owner did even the 1st 30....trans @ 60k already done differential @60k done.
But you know what now that think about it...you have a point..even though those could be manufacturer coils in there. however, im guessing even they would put cheap coils in there wouldn't they?. Probably why their melting onto the plug..Appreciate the thought...thanks
But you know what now that think about it...you have a point..even though those could be manufacturer coils in there. however, im guessing even they would put cheap coils in there wouldn't they?. Probably why their melting onto the plug..Appreciate the thought...thanks
#14
03-02-16, 01:36 PM
I recently tuned up my stepson's jeep which had the factory plugs with COP in it at 148k. The COPs came out fine although one was fried and had to be replaced. Most modern day vehicles have the plug replacement scheduled in the neighborhood of 100k miles.
You never did say what kind/year vehicle it is.
You never did say what kind/year vehicle it is.
#15
03-03-16, 10:16 AM
Well, the coils over plugs are factory coils, and I have probably also answered another question I think its better to pull these coils off with the engine warm not hot but very warm which I tried on that 1st plug about 2 wks ago. I pulled one off now.... cold engine and part of the boot from coil came apart still stuck down in that sleeve where the plug is and if im able to get it out in "ONE" piece without tearing it, then its repairable. Getting that out is the trick!!!! Now I thinking it best to try it warm im think once rubber is cold its hard to break its seal. this is an issue with this vehicle how they designed it. I don't believe at the factory they applied any di-electric grease on them just installed the boil dry. why didn't I wait for that tool...hmmmmm I think now once I do get it out.. I will have that tool.
#16
03-03-16, 12:09 PM
Here is the boot. Pulled off. On a cold engine I think. I not even sure that would of came off with a warm engine. I Will try a very warm engine on the next 7 ..boot replacement 10.80 ea.
#17
03-03-16, 12:14 PM
Well so much for the grab it and twist and pull.. ck the pict put I broke off the plug purposely to get it out. then sliced it open and wow.. really melted onto the plug....
another question...
is it a wild idea to place a shrink tube over "just" the porcelain part of the plug to keep it from melting again,..or will it melt onto the shrink tube as well.
another question...
is it a wild idea to place a shrink tube over "just" the porcelain part of the plug to keep it from melting again,..or will it melt onto the shrink tube as well.
#18
03-03-16, 05:57 PM
Member
Sorry, dude. Been working on my cars since 1990, including Russian ones, and have never ever seen a boot melt like this to the plug. Had stubborn ones, sure, but never this magnitude.
Appreciate black gloves, btw. That's what I use too.
It's twofold situation: rubber is not up to par to the temperatures and temperatures are very high.
That engine was not overheated by any chance?
Appreciate black gloves, btw. That's what I use too.
It's twofold situation: rubber is not up to par to the temperatures and temperatures are very high.
That engine was not overheated by any chance?
#20
03-04-16, 06:58 AM
ukrbyk, No exhaust leak purrs like a kitten. what I did do with the knew one I installed is applied generous amount of silicone of course to all areas that makes contact and going to for the rest of them. At this point I do not believe they were changed at 30k let alone 60k because the gap was .050 and suppose to be .040 im not sure even if they melt at 30k I only had this over mo.
I was thinking for the next time if they want to be stubborn again, place a heat shrink tube over just the porcelain part but that brings another set of questions will it hold and will it melt itself inside the boot and if so the boot has to be replace. d if it were to hold onto the plug then would it make it easier to pull off from the plug.
I think Im going to tackle this with an open mine and just see what happen with the rest of them. They have to come off one way or another, and if t come off in one piece there's 11.00 for ea. one saved if not ole well. Like I mentioned factory installed them dry thus creating this issue. I will try to post pict of the rest let you guys see what they look like.
Thanks for your comments.
I was thinking for the next time if they want to be stubborn again, place a heat shrink tube over just the porcelain part but that brings another set of questions will it hold and will it melt itself inside the boot and if so the boot has to be replace. d if it were to hold onto the plug then would it make it easier to pull off from the plug.
I think Im going to tackle this with an open mine and just see what happen with the rest of them. They have to come off one way or another, and if t come off in one piece there's 11.00 for ea. one saved if not ole well. Like I mentioned factory installed them dry thus creating this issue. I will try to post pict of the rest let you guys see what they look like.
Thanks for your comments.
#21
03-04-16, 09:01 PM
Member
If you say so. I change NGKs at roughly 100 000 miles without any of this hassle. As I said, looking at the burnt boot edges in your pic - it looks like they were subject to very high temperature. What often happens is that exhaust under high pressure in CCs leaks out between porcelain and metal parts. Looks like black streaks coming up on porcelain. You can't hear it, but it does toast rubber.
Something like this, or just small vertical "tongues" of black soot like stain
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...5/DSC02833.jpg
Something like this, or just small vertical "tongues" of black soot like stain
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...5/DSC02833.jpg
#22
03-05-16, 07:54 AM
ukrbyk, I do appreciate what your saying I do, and I think you have a strong point. as far as changing at 30k this is what the maintenance schedule recommends..this is prob why they want you to, but if I leave it till 100k those boots wouldn't come off at all I would have to break the plug. Now as far as the plug running hot NO question...it probably is. Now Im wondering about looking into a cooler plug.
So what I'm going to do is.. their coming out one way or the other, and then on new ones like I have mentioned silicone generously for the next time and see how that works. was going to work on it today but little cooler with wind blowing.
Thanks for your thoughts anything at this point helps.
So what I'm going to do is.. their coming out one way or the other, and then on new ones like I have mentioned silicone generously for the next time and see how that works. was going to work on it today but little cooler with wind blowing.
Thanks for your thoughts anything at this point helps.
#23
03-05-16, 09:01 AM
without make and model really don't know what you working on but ukrbyk mentioned using dieletric grease witch is silicone based so hopefully you are using that inside the new boots or coils to help prevent the problem in the future sometimes they do stick very well to the plug.
#24
03-05-16, 09:10 AM
Spark plug heat range ?
08 ram 1500 4.7 Does anyone know the heat range diff between the 2 plugs
Autolite 6003 vs FR8TE2 Bosch
The reason I'm asking is my bosch is running hot.
Take a look at what this happen. The boot melted onto the plug. there has been stories about this happening. Now I'm trying to prevent it happening again. My guess is its running too hot. I want to say the autolites are step cooler. I had to snap the top part of the plug off to get it out. the Boot what shown here was left in the sleeve where the plug was. I pulled 1 off about 2 wks ago and it was just about to start melting itself to that plug. I know..Dielectric grease I will apply generously. Bosch is recommended but those are running hot as you can see. I also believe factory installed them dry and these plugs were never changed at 30k as recommened nor 60k Im at 71 now
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0xxfxvj9g...0Pict.jpg?dl=0
Autolite 6003 vs FR8TE2 Bosch
The reason I'm asking is my bosch is running hot.
Take a look at what this happen. The boot melted onto the plug. there has been stories about this happening. Now I'm trying to prevent it happening again. My guess is its running too hot. I want to say the autolites are step cooler. I had to snap the top part of the plug off to get it out. the Boot what shown here was left in the sleeve where the plug was. I pulled 1 off about 2 wks ago and it was just about to start melting itself to that plug. I know..Dielectric grease I will apply generously. Bosch is recommended but those are running hot as you can see. I also believe factory installed them dry and these plugs were never changed at 30k as recommened nor 60k Im at 71 now
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0xxfxvj9g...0Pict.jpg?dl=0
Last edited by PJmax; 03-05-16 at 09:14 AM. Reason: added pic from link
#25
03-05-16, 09:14 AM
The heat range of a sparkplug has to do with how hot the spark is and as far as I know has nothing to do with how hot the outside portion of the plug gets. That is probably more from engine heat than anything else.
#26
03-05-16, 09:16 AM
Do you know the heat range diff on plugs???
I may be looking at a step down cooler in plug as well as the silicone. Im trying to fine more info on this now
autolite 6003 vs FR8TE2 bosch
alan I didn't even realize I was even in the wrong forum I have a 08 ram truck which I post over there.. But ukrbyk and rest of you guys have been very helpful in brain storming this.
I may be looking at a step down cooler in plug as well as the silicone. Im trying to fine more info on this now
autolite 6003 vs FR8TE2 bosch
alan I didn't even realize I was even in the wrong forum I have a 08 ram truck which I post over there.. But ukrbyk and rest of you guys have been very helpful in brain storming this.
#27
03-05-16, 09:24 AM
Group Moderator
I combined your two threads in the proper forum
All the questions that will be asked again about your problem were already answered except for the temperature range of the plugs...... which has little to do with the rubber plug cap getting stuck on.
All the questions that will be asked again about your problem were already answered except for the temperature range of the plugs...... which has little to do with the rubber plug cap getting stuck on.
#28
03-05-16, 09:36 AM
Group Moderator
From Bosch.........
Autolite's numbering system does not have a standardized heat range identifier.
The last digit in an Autolite part number represents the heat range within a plug family.
For example, take the 254x plug series. Autolite has 2544, 2545 and 2546 available. 2544 is the coldest plug in that plug family, and 2546 is the hottest. However, according to an Autolite reference chart, Autolite 86 has the same heat range as 2244 and Autolite 303 is a hotter plug than 2974. Therefore, it is impossible to chart an Autolite heat range hierarchy, let alone a standardized comparison to other spark plug brands.
Autolite's numbering system does not have a standardized heat range identifier.
The last digit in an Autolite part number represents the heat range within a plug family.
For example, take the 254x plug series. Autolite has 2544, 2545 and 2546 available. 2544 is the coldest plug in that plug family, and 2546 is the hottest. However, according to an Autolite reference chart, Autolite 86 has the same heat range as 2244 and Autolite 303 is a hotter plug than 2974. Therefore, it is impossible to chart an Autolite heat range hierarchy, let alone a standardized comparison to other spark plug brands.
#29
03-05-16, 09:41 AM
Excluding racing applications, it's generally best to stick with the manufacture specified heat range. On old worn engines it can be beneficial to go to a hotter plug. I don't remember ever working on any engines where a colder than spec plug was needed. Again I don't believe a colder plug will equate into the outside porcelain being cooler.
#30
03-06-16, 06:12 PM
Plug Boot Removal UPDATE
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vmu6o0ydak...rSide.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lrw57cg9q7...81%29.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/70f2wiumn4...sSide.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5weka3s3xd...stube.jpg?dl=0
UPDATE: my 2cents experience
OK Got all the plugs in. Took us about - 3 hrs My neighbor came up with a genus idea, he had thought of something to get those boots left in the sleeve due to them be melted on, I had ruin 3 out of 8 boots more about this later If he hadn't thought of this genus idea we still would be pulling on these boots
What he came up with was a Brass Tube 15/32 10in long or so (not xact) also don't use a tube cutter to cut it, it rounds the edge and it doesn't fit over the plug, but you do need a very straight cut edge to it(rough). this allows to cut it
So here's what happens, when the boot is left in the sleeve spray silicone lub in the boot & on the outside of the tube place the tube in the boot and what it does it will slide right over the plug and down "through" twisting and pushing cutting the melted portion. Dont be surprise that its a little hard to get it down at 1st this is why you need a sharp edge to it and twisting. Once you break through it, you will leave behind the little spring magnet to get it. What we did was to measure/mark from top of the boot just before the end of it, mark it on the tube. I choose to buy new boots(belden) vs using the ones that came out of there. don't hammer it down twisting is key. once out don't forget to use air to spray that silicone out of the plug tube.
Now, you can still use the same boots, once they come out.
So the driver side was easier they pulled off with some resistance but came off with the boot. Took no time
Passenger side was the toughest to pull off as well as the one in back and it seem like those were the ones that were melted
then I looked at the engine and seen on the driver side that there was ton more room for airflow then the passenager side. This might explain the melted boots. I do believe these were not changed @ 30 & 60k
Also if you sign up for napaonlinerewards you get 5.00 for signing up towards those boots
they had belden 10.80 ea.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lrw57cg9q7...81%29.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/70f2wiumn4...sSide.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5weka3s3xd...stube.jpg?dl=0
UPDATE: my 2cents experience
OK Got all the plugs in. Took us about - 3 hrs My neighbor came up with a genus idea, he had thought of something to get those boots left in the sleeve due to them be melted on, I had ruin 3 out of 8 boots more about this later If he hadn't thought of this genus idea we still would be pulling on these boots
What he came up with was a Brass Tube 15/32 10in long or so (not xact) also don't use a tube cutter to cut it, it rounds the edge and it doesn't fit over the plug, but you do need a very straight cut edge to it(rough). this allows to cut it
So here's what happens, when the boot is left in the sleeve spray silicone lub in the boot & on the outside of the tube place the tube in the boot and what it does it will slide right over the plug and down "through" twisting and pushing cutting the melted portion. Dont be surprise that its a little hard to get it down at 1st this is why you need a sharp edge to it and twisting. Once you break through it, you will leave behind the little spring magnet to get it. What we did was to measure/mark from top of the boot just before the end of it, mark it on the tube. I choose to buy new boots(belden) vs using the ones that came out of there. don't hammer it down twisting is key. once out don't forget to use air to spray that silicone out of the plug tube.
Now, you can still use the same boots, once they come out.
So the driver side was easier they pulled off with some resistance but came off with the boot. Took no time
Passenger side was the toughest to pull off as well as the one in back and it seem like those were the ones that were melted
then I looked at the engine and seen on the driver side that there was ton more room for airflow then the passenager side. This might explain the melted boots. I do believe these were not changed @ 30 & 60k
Also if you sign up for napaonlinerewards you get 5.00 for signing up towards those boots
they had belden 10.80 ea.
