Frost Free Hydrant in wrong location


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Old 10-29-18, 12:54 PM
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Frost Free Hydrant in wrong location

New to us place. The hydrant is located in a poor location and adjacent to an outside wall. The room the hydrant is in is heated. I want to run a pipe from the hydrant to an outside spigot on the other end of the room so I don't have to go into the room to fill buckets. For this to work the hydrant valve will be open so the water pipe coming through the slab is full and is only 12" from the outside wall - and the associated frozen ground.

I live in Minnesota. The Frost line is 5' deep.

How do I keep it from freezing?

The picture will help explain what I'm wanting to do:
 
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Last edited by akscbat; 10-29-18 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Didn't ask a question
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Old 10-29-18, 02:24 PM
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First thing you want to do is insulate the pipe. Liquid water does expel heat so you want to keep as much as possible from conducting away. As long as the room will remain at 55 degrees you should not have a problem. But I would heated to a bit more. If it drops below, then you can let a little trickle out to main rain flow.

Heated tape will work also.
 
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Old 10-29-18, 03:42 PM
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The problem isn't the above ground pipe. The room is warmer than the ground water so insulating the pipe that extends into the room will actually make things worse.

I'm not fond of the idea of undermining the footing for the slab to insulate the pipe under the slab.

last year I had a hose connected to the hydrant - each day I would use the hose to fill the buckets and shut the valve when I was done. Because I didn't remove the hose, it didn't drain back properly and the hydrant froze. I don't want to repeat last year.
 
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Old 10-29-18, 04:25 PM
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If you want to keep the hydrant open and full of water the first thing that comes to mind is to keep the water flowing. The second thought is to bore a hole through the slab between the hydrant and outer wall and insert a heater down into the soil. Both methods are more wasteful than I would like.

Is there anything you can do outside? Maybe dig down a foot or so on the other side of the wall from the hydrant and put in a nice layer of rigid foam insulation. Maybe the insulation can reduce the frost depth in that area so the hydrant line underground doesn't freeze.
 
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Old 10-29-18, 06:24 PM
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Pilot Dane - I was thinking similarly to your rigid foam idea... Do I put the rigid foam horizontally, vertically, or split the difference?

Horizontally would be the easiest; I was thinking burying it with 6" of dirt to keep it in place, and let the grass grow over it.

I think vertically would be the most effective, but the hardest to do. How do you dig a vertical trench right next to the building without undermining the base the concrete is poured on?

Which brings me to the 45 degree method - a happy compromise.
 
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Old 10-30-18, 04:49 AM
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I would put install insulation both horizontally and vertically. Vertical right along the foundation wall. Then, if your frost depth is 5' then you also have to consider that cold can move horizontally. For example I'd dig down a foot and at least 4' in each direction away from the the hydrant so when the freezing temps have to go down a foot and then horizontally 4' to get to the hydrant.

Some insects love to burrow in foam. To help the foam last longer I would also think about treating your hole with termite insecticide. I'm not an insect expert but I'd consider something with Fipronil. There are many products that contain this ingredient. Here is the first one I found online approved for in ground use.
 
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Old 10-30-18, 05:51 AM
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Pilot Dane - I think we are on the same page... and I think it would work.

I also solicited the advice from my brothers - they ALWAYS know what's best for me - I might as well throw them a bone every once in a while. Anyway, my farmer brother had a similar issue - He cut a hole in the concrete, dug down along the hydrant, slipped an 8" tile over the hydrant leaving an air gap around the hydrant pipe and hasn't had an issue since.

Being short on time this fall, I have way to many projects to get done before winter sets in - Don't mind the 21F we had overnight last weekend - I'm going to put a piece of plywood against the wall and dump some manure over the ground in the area. A little unsightly - but damned effective!
 
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Old 10-30-18, 08:27 AM
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Yes, a pile of decomposing anything will help. For the first month you might even see it steaming.
 
 

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