Coin tray lock mechan Whirlpool Dryer Mod: CE2950XSW3-Commercial-izm

Whirlpool Dryer Mod: CE2950XSW3

Well I fix one problem on my friend's dryer. Now we have another one. I don't know if this is the proper forum for this question but here we go.

This is a commercial dryer. He is a landlord and coins must be inserted in order for the tenant to run the dryer. Once we fixed the heater issue he went to open the coin try with the key and found that it would not let him insert the key all the way in. He knows it is the proper key too. After comparing it to the other dryer coin try key hole and looking in it with a flash light it seems that a few tumblers are mis aligned (lack of a better term) and not allowing him to insert the key all the way in the key hole. I tried to use a piece of 12 gauge wire to see if I could slide a tumbler to the side but I guess that won't work.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

Moved to Lock forum. .

 

A close up photo of keyhole would be helpful. Coin-op appliances have used several types of locks over the years. 25 years ago the tubular (Ace) type predominated, but in recent years Van, Abloy, Medeco, Miwa and others have been used, all with their own peculiarities. Coin-op locks are subject to vandals and kids cramming stuff into them. It won't hurt to give it a shot of WD40 or similar penetrating oil, (yes I know WD40 is not an oil, but it will serve to loosen a stuck tumbler if it's sticking from dirt) but I suspect dirt is not the problem.

If you are able to shift a tumbler so the key will enter, it's an indication the lock is worn out and needs to be replaced before it completely jams and locks you out.

 

Once you get the tray out, operate the lock repeatedly to test whether the problem is the lock itself or the alignment of the locking bar or cam once reinserted into the appliance. If the lock tends to bind when turning the key to lock it in place, the keyway can be left slightly misaligned, making it difficult to reinsert the next time.

 

As you can see it seems that the tumblers are not in line to allow the key to be inserted all the way.

The other two pictures are the other coin tray that is exactly like the one in the dryer now that we want to replace it with.

 

It's hard to see the tumblers in the picture.

It looks like the tumbler can be removed from the back of the coin box.
It may be time for a visit to a locksmith.

 

We would have to take the dryer to the locksmith. The second and third pictures are of another identical one. The first picture is one in a dryer which the tumblers are not aligned. So I guess the locksmith has to come to the apartment building in this case.

No other alternative suggestions? Hopefully.

 

The tumblers are pushed by pins where the red lines are. That brass looking piece in the lock looks like a broken piece of key.

 

Good pics! That's an Abloy (or an import of Abloy design). There's 2 scenarios here: #1: An undamaged lock in which your description of the problem would indicate an attempt to pick the lock, and #2: A damaged lock.

It helps to know how the Abloy works: There are 6 to 8 "tumblers" consisting of round discs in a row, one behind another. Each has a half-moon (D-shaped) hole in it's center so the half-round key can be inserted. Each disc must be rotated by the key a varying amount (determined by the key pattern), to cause a small slot in each one to line up so the bolt can operate. As the key is returned to the locked position, the discs are realigned so that the key can be withdrawn. There are no springs; the discs "float" freely. (There are wave-like washers separating the discs to provide some friction, so that external vibration won't cause them to rotate). (cont.)

 

The first disc isn't a tumbler; it's just a keyhole guide that turns around and around.

Scenario #1: Somebody's tried to pick the lock. A picking tool would leave the discs misaligned so that the key will not insert easily. In this case, you must repeatedly turn the key back and forth through at least 90 degrees as you insert it, in order to "pick up" each disc. Once fully inserted, the lock will work.

Scenario #2: one or more discs are frozen in place and won't rotate. The Abloy design is very durable and while it's possible that a jamb or breakage has occurred due to extreme age, it's more likely someone has squirted crazy glue or jammed some foreign material into the lock. You can squirt some Liquid Wrench or similar penetrant and by aggressive key turning, free it up most times, but don't use pliers on the key or you might bend/break it.

 

The photo shows the keyhole disc (the first disc) completely misaligned from the first 2 tumbler discs (the ones that can be seen). The keyhole disc would need to be rotated a half turn one way or the other to pick up the tumblers.

 

Fascinating... thanks rstripe.

If/when you get the door out.... you can replace it with a new one.
COIN BOXES

 

Google "abloy discs" (images). The newer discs have rectangular holes (allowing key rotation in both directions), but the ones we're dealing with are the original half-moon holes.

 

Ahh, possible picking of the lock. Ok, this may be the case. We found that this lock would not accept the key about 2 or more weeks ago. Since then in the next room over (breaker panel room where the individual unit electrical panels are which is left unlocked so that tenants may reset tripped breakers) he keeps a "lock box key holder" which is mounted to the wall. Simply a combination push button safe which when opened gives us access to all the keys of the units in that building and others along with the washer and dryer coin keys. I have been helping him by painting one of his recently vacated units in that building. Each day I go to that lock box and get the key for the unit I am painting for him. Each time I return the key I specifically close the door and reset the code to zero with the push button and turn the knob to the horizontal position. I think it was Thursday morning I went to open the key box and found that the door was half open (I thought he may have been there the night before and just did not close it all the way). I attempted to enter the code and had a problem with opening the door but finally was able to. Then I noticed that the door had been pried open and the locking mechanism messed up. They were not able to open the door all the way but quite obvious someone attempted to gain access to it. After discussing this with my friend we came to think that the only reason why someone would want the keys in there would be for the keys to the washers and dryers to get the coins out. There is a lot of things in that room worth money and they left them there but only attempted to open the key box. So maybe the first attempt was to gain access to the dryer coin boxes which failed several weeks ago and then they tried again to open the key box hoping to get all the keys to the washers and dryers.

I will try as suggested to insert the key and turn 90 degrees back and forth gently trying to realign the tumblers. These units are in a fairly crime free area and something like this is not normal. I would have to assume it is someone that knows that the keys are kept in that room and someone that lives close by as why would they make it a point to "return to the scene of the crime" for a second time to get the coins from the machines. We have since secured that room with a lock on the door.

Thank you all for your ideas and comments. If you have any other ideas please let me know.

Also, my friend had said that he thought that maybe the tip of the key had broken off (as suggested here above) but after looking closely at the tip of the key the tip is very even (no rough pointed edges) indicating that the tip did not break off and we also compared it to the key for the other dryer and noticed it is the same length etc so highly unlikely the tip broke off in the keyhole.

 

Yes, explaining the process takes far longer than doing it. Realigning the tumblers takes no more than 5 Seconds. Each time the key goes a little further in, you have "captured" the next disc. Because each disc is limited to rotate about 90 degrees, you'll notice that once you "capture" the first one, the key is limited to that 90 degrees rotation, as you pick up subsequent discs. You'll know when the key is fully inserted because at that point the key will rotate (always clockwise, I think), beyond that 90 degree limit, due to the correct alignment, and now the entire internal barrel rotates to open the lock.

 

You will notice the tip of all Abloy keys is not cut; the cuts in the key that determine how far each disc rotates, begins about 2.5 - 3.0mm from the tip.
Since the tip is a "full profile" uncut section, any disc that is frozen (from glue or whatever) will prevent any rotation of the key when the tip enters it. At that point, you need to use a little effort to see if you can free it up.

There could also be a broken off piece of a picking tool jammed at the back of the keyway, and difficult to see if the discs are scrambled. Hopefully, this will not be your situation.

 

Most Abloy Classic cylinders use 10 discs in each lock cylinder. As rstripe said, and his advice is spot on, you can simply use your existing key to turn each disc individually until the key inserts completely.

It is most unlikely that anyone would be able to pick the lock.

the metal shroud in front of the cylinder is hardened to prevent drilling. Mot washers use this and it is a security protection device to prevent drilling.

the first disc deliberately spins to thwart drilling the lock.

there are no springs in these cylinders and in all likelihood, the locks are masterkeyed.

lubricate using teflon or silicone spray. Do not use powdered graphite as it will cause the lock cylinder to jamb.

 

Sorry for delay in getting back.

Ok, tried some penetrating spray. Sprayed it back into the cylinders. Let it sit for 24 hours. Attempted to insert key and rotate. Sprayed it again, made sure the spray went all the way in. Let it sit for another 24 hours. Again, sprayed it again, let it sit another 24 hours.

This took place over 3 days. Each time I attempted to turn the key after letting it sit for 24 hours after spraying it I gently inserted the key. Seemed to line up with the first cylinder, turned it just a bit until there was resistance and then turned it a little harder. It would give just a very little bit each way. Each of the days it seemed to give the same amount. I put a bit more pressure on the key to attempt to turn it but did not want to put too much pressure on it and snap the end of the key off in the lock.

I think something either was jammed in there or something else is preventing the key from turning. But as I said each time (day) I attempted to turn the key it only gave a very little bit and it seemed to be the same amount, so apparently I was not getting anywhere. Figured if had to have a professional lock person come open it would be better this way instead of with the end of the key stuck in it because it snapped.

 

Each tumbler disc should be rotatable with the key through about 90 degrees as it is inserted. I assume you are certain you've not been able to fully insert the key, (compare with a good lock using your thumb to gauge insertion) and that when the key enters the second or third disc, you can no longer turn the key through 90 degrees, ie., the disc is frozen. So, either: (in order of probability)
1) glue-like substance has not been dissolved by penetrating oil, or
2) a foreign object such as a broken off tip of a picking tool has jammed it, or
3) the disc itself has broken, or
4) If the lock is worn out from use over many years, the sidebar rod may have seized the disc in a false gate.

You have allowed plenty of time for penetration oil to work, so now you call the locksmith who is familiar with Abloy. He may try to free the discs with an un-cut key blank since it's a little stronger than an operating key. If the industry has a steel key blank for this purpose, I don't know. Drilling the box open would be similar to drilling a safe; a locksmith would not try to drill the lock itself (being of hardened shell, as Global indicated) but rather a strategic location near the lock or from the rear, to access the bolt works. If you're in a large city you might check with a local laundromat chain and see who they recommend to open your box, as they have probably had to deal with this problem on more than one occasion.

 

Don't know how the frowny-face got there, but may be apropos to OP's situation anyway.

 

You had a colon next to a parenthesis with no space between. I added the space. (The board recognizes :( as a frown emoticon)

Note: I used noparse tags so you could see what you wrote.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

OK, I will pass this information to my friend. It is now in his ballpark as to what his next step will be. We appreciate all the suggestions you gave us.

I will try and come back once the tray is opened by a professional and let you know what s/he finds.

Thanks

 

You da man, Ray. I shall be more careful, on future posts!

@AFJES, yes, let us know the outcome, now that you've piqued our curiosity!

 

Just an update on this post. My friend and his wife basically let this sit on the back burner for a while. They have called locksmith after locksmith to come out to look at this coin tray box and since we all live in a very rural area the ones that even call him back tell him it is not worth their trip to this location and show no interest in helping at all.

So my friend's wife got an idea and did a google search and asked me if I wanted to have some fun and break into the coin box. I said sure but did not realize how hard it would be. The video showed drilling straight thru where the hole goes and into the locking mechanism and this will pop out the back housing of the lock. Well we had some fun but unfortunately we were not successful. We drilled holes in the lock but it still won't open. So even if they were able to get a lock smith now forget it.

But as you can see a lot of time has passed since I originally posted this issue. The dryer has been used since then and collecting quarters but probably almost full. It is a very old dryer and actually they decided to replace it about one month ago. They figured even if they could get a lock smith out there that between that cost and the idea that it may soon die that it was just better to buy another used one. We are picking the new used one up in one week.

So now that the lock is destroyed basically altogether we are thinking that the only way to get the quarters out is to smash the coin tray housing with a sledge hammer. But at the same time my friend said he would give me the dryer to use at home. Well that is after we get the quarters out.

My question is what is the best way to get the quarters out of the tray but preserve the dryer so it can still be used without quarters. Smashing it up with a sledge hammer sounds like fun but what are some suggestions; that is if we can still use it after opening up the coin tray.

Thanks

 

Lift top off, coin mechanism is bolted to dryer, Been many years since I have worked on one but will have to unplug wires. after coin assy off than you can work on coin box. Use some care as the timer is in there also.
Here is a diagram with coin box.
WHIRLPOOL Residential Dryer Parts | Model CE2950XSW3 | Sears PartsDirect
Did I read you have a key for timer section, This would help a lot. Dryer is a good one if you keep the vent clean.

 

I just asked my friend. He does not have the key for that lock assembly in the diagram. He said maybe we can order one online by providing serial number of dryer. Is this possible? Part #52 Service Door Lock Assembly. I know that is saying we can order the entire lock assembly but wondering if we can order the key for ours? I would think it would be hard to because what is to prevent someone from ordering a key and breaking into one.

Anyway I can get up into it (#26 case) from behind the dryer and under that assembly. It looks as though the bolts holding that the the body of the dryer are from the inside going down according to the parts explosion. I would think that would keep someone from getting into it from under the case.

 

Good to hear back from you, AFJES. Assuming the switch assembly that is activated by the coin tray is not as well guarded as the coin box itself, you might bypass those wires with a pushbutton switch. As to the coin box itself, I wonder how much money has accumulated? How much will it hold? Having emptied those boxes in the past, you might have some idea. If you can bypass the switch, is it worth the effort to destroy the box?

 

The key for the timer part is a generatic key and most repairmen would have one, I still have one 3 years after I retired, Coin box key is different.

 

That's how this whole thing started. No repairman wants to come out this far. Even when my friend offered to pay them for the travel time they would say "yes", my friend would wait for them at the scheduled time and "no show" with excuse "oh we must have had our schedule wrong". Or "too far for me to drive". Months later after excuse after excuse; one not showing up after the other. This why his wife said "the heck with this let's just drill through the coin tray lock". Well we know now that did not work well at all. The dryer was basically on its last legs so she did not care. They wanted to give it to me because I had none at the house and I figured what the heck.

Good to be back. I appreciated the time everyone gave me so I wanted to come back and report with an update and see if there was anything else we could do.

A push button would do it more than likely. Problem being opening up that section without destroying the wiring etc in there. I may just tell him we have to now drill through the round lock. Also thinking by the time we get this thing opened up it may not even be in any condition for me to have it and use it.

This is not my dryer (property). It is my friend's. His wife normally empties them every two to three weeks or so when she comes up to check on the properties. They live about 40 miles from here and I live close by. I have never emptied them before. Have no clue how much they hold. But I did tell him the box is probably ready to burst. As I said before we wanted to break it open with a sledge hammer but decided probably not a good idea to do it where the tenants can see so we were going to bring it to my house to do it. But then again, bring it over here, unload it, smash the coin box open, destroy any chance of me using it and still having to dispose of it. This entire thing started when we think someone tried to break into it. His wife tried to use the key as normal and it would not work. Then about a week later the property "key box holder" was broken into; well someone tried and could not get to the keys. This is where the keys for the coin boxes for the washers and dryers are kept.

 

The top of dryer should come off and than you can unbolt coin assy. The timer can be turned if you can get the back part open. That is not to hard to break open. Coin box is another bag of worms tho. Been years but I remember I could service everything after back part was open.

 

pugsl and rstripe thanks for your help and suggestions.

Project has been delayed again due to them going out of country for a couple of weeks on vacation.

So I will have to wait until they get back before we try anything as my friend will get the replacement dryer when he returns. In the meantime we are hoping this one "hangs tight" until then. He told me if anything happens with it while they are gone to just take it out of commission by unplugging it. Now we are hoping the coin tray does not jam while someone tries to use it since it is probably ready to burst.

So until then.

Again, thanks