Bathroom Sink water supply valves


  #1  
Old 05-24-23, 11:40 AM
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Bathroom Sink water supply valves

I have to remove a bathroom vanity and sink to put a new floor in my upstairs bathoom. A video showed a guy removing the water supply valves to the sink by of course turning off the water before doing so. Any work I have ever had to do with this sink was of such short duration, it was just easier to shut off the whole house valve in the basement. I don't want to shut everything off this time. These under the sink valves have not had to budge for 30 years, and they are not moving easily now. The video showed the guy taking off the oval shaped hand valve, and loosening a big nut behind it and then turning another nut with a wrench to turn the valve to close it and or open it. I was thinking of trying that, and soaking it in PB Blaster too. Any red flags out there from you guys? (I WILL have the main shut off turned off too lol)
 
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Old 05-24-23, 11:58 AM
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Don't expect valves that haven't moved for 30 years to work. If you can close them they are likely to leak.

You can try loosening the packing nut like you mention (you don't have to remove the knob, just loosen the nut). That will allow the valve to turn more easily but it does not help is closing without leaking. If the valve is leaking past the valve stem tightening the packing nut can sometimes fix it. I've never seen a benefit to loosening the nut.

I've never had the patience to wait long enough for sprays to get a valve working again. There is no harm in trying though. Quite often it is the main sealing part of the valve that is gunked in place with mineral deposits and not the valve stem. That means that sprays on the outside can't reach the deposits freezing the valve in place.

I would plan on replacing the shutoff valves. You will have to turn the water off. Then remove or cut off the old valves. Then you can install temporary caps or new valves so you can turn the water back on to the house.

In the future do not open the shutoff valves all the way. After years of sitting the only way the valve can move is in one direction. If you leave the valve mostly open you can then turn the valve back and forth to help break the mineral deposits free that have frozen it in place.
 
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Old 05-24-23, 01:30 PM
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Good info from Dane.

I would not count on the valves sealing completely.
Plenty of internal crud at 30 years.
Post a pic of what you have there. You can send it to my email and I'll post it for you.
 
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Old 05-24-23, 03:34 PM
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I still have your email Pete but I am camera challenged at the moment. I went upstairs with a flashlight and got a closer look, These look like compression fitting mounted valves. It looks like I am buying a puller and a couple of new ones to get this vanity moved..
 

Last edited by WML13; 05-24-23 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 05-24-23, 05:32 PM
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It appears that different companies make caps for valve outlets. I can cap them off for now, remove the vanity and deal with the compression fittings when the vanity goes back into the bathroom.
 
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Old 05-25-23, 12:16 PM
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The valves I have are made with threaded outlet nipples that are 5/8" OD measured with a caliper. The hardware stores around here are clueless unless I bring in a valve, which I cannot do right now It appears that valves this size aren't made for my generation of houses? Who makes a pipe end cap that will fit these old valves?
 
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Old 05-25-23, 01:13 PM
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Is your pipping copper? If so use Shark Bite valves. Quick and easy. As long as you have enough pipe sticking out of the wall.
 
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Old 05-25-23, 03:22 PM
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I was just hoping to be able to close up the valves I have for now to get the vanity off the floor. I have heard the Shark bite valves would be the way to go, and I may have to just to get past the vanity issue.
 
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Old 05-25-23, 03:38 PM
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Between the valves and the sink are typically 3/8" water lines.
Get a pair of 3/8" compression caps......... 3/8" compression caps.

One problem with replacing compression valves is that the crimp ring will be crimped on the copper pipe. You may get lucky and just change them with 1/2" compression x 3/8" compression 1/4 turn ball valves. Not all valves use the same thread in the nut on the 1/2" pipe side. Otherwise... you will need to carefully cut that ring off without damaging the pipe underneath of it.
 
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Old 05-25-23, 07:05 PM
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When I get to the point of actually replacing the valves, I saw a video where a guy had a special tool (like a gear puller) that pulls the nut AND the compression ring off of the supply pipe. Not my problem right now, I just need to get the vanity out of the room lol
 
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Old 05-28-23, 01:32 PM
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Well, the Force is still with me to a point. The PB Blaster freed up the valve stems and allowed me to close both valves (and open them) until the hot water valve closed and didn't open again. I can at least remove the vanity now without causing a flood. Don't know but would assume that the aforementioned gunk that probably still exists inside the valve is jamming things up. Plenty of copper intake line to install new Shark bites at my convenience. Not sure yet if they left enough clearance for the valves to pass thru the back of the vanity without surgery, Would think even the builders would not have wanted to install the valves (in such a tight place) AFTER the vanity was put in, but I will find out tomorrow. Thanks from an OLD Veteran for all the replies !
 
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Old 05-28-23, 02:25 PM
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I mentioned 3/8" compression caps. You can still use them.
 
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Old 05-28-23, 03:59 PM
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Yes Pete, I ordered a couple them from Home Depot a few days ago, and will have them soon. I will definitely use those as back up. I saw a guy on Utube replace a set of the original compression fit multi turn valves (like I have) with a set of quarter turn ball valves. He used the original compression collar and nut, and bolted them to a quarter turn ball valve with a 3/8" outlet to go to the sink valves. I would like to do the same thing if I can get all the measurements right for the swap.
 
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Old 05-30-23, 02:22 PM
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It's strictly by trial and error. You can spec what you want but the nut thread on the 1/2" compression side is not universal. You may be lucky to find a valve that use the same nut thread. You may have to try several brands.

This is what you want to end up with.
The 3/8" port is universal. Your 3/8" hose will attach there no problem.
The 1/2" thread on a valve is not universal.
The universal part is that it is 1/2" compression for 1/2" copper.
You may need to buy several different valves to find one that uses the old nut thread.
 
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Old 05-30-23, 04:24 PM
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10-4 on the non universality of the valve on the inlet side. I have been catching breaks all along, so lets keep the Karma going! I have to remove the vanity top, and was dreading having to destroy it with a chisel, but it was only fastened with 4 philips head screws from the underside which zipped right out with my Milwaukee drill. I have a really tight plastic nut holding the sink drain pipe into the back of the vanitiy and to the house drain pipe. Hoping that I can get that retaining nut to break loose without bending anything. Thanks for the heads up on the valves!
 
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Old 05-31-23, 07:44 AM
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Pete, if I get Shark Bite fittings to add new valves, does the compression ring HAVE to be removed from the copper pipe before install?
 
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Old 06-01-23, 02:05 PM
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Here is the best part! After I got the 3/8" valve outlet caps installed, I went after the Vanity "box" screws holding it to the wall, and to my surprise the whole thing moved back toward me. A wise person along the line had made the back of the vanity with two large panels removed so they surrounded the piping inlets and outlets, and were not held in with with the vanity back wall sandwiched between everything. ALL the vanity parts are in another room out of the way of the flooring installers whoooo hoooo!
 
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Old 06-01-23, 03:54 PM
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To answer your question. YES! The compression ring must be removed.
 
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Old 06-02-23, 08:31 AM
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That makes sense Norm, but I also heard that you can't use the pipe that had the compression ring fastened to it. (at least the part of the pipe that was compressed by the nut an the ring) Is that true?
 
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Old 06-02-23, 08:36 AM
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As long as the copper stub has a smooth and non-deformed edge it will be fine. The SharkBite seals with an "O" ring on the diameter of the pipe. If the compression ring interferes with the SharkBytes clinching mechanism, then no it won't seal. Best thing is removing ring by cutting off at that point. Hopefully you will still have enough stub left for the SharkBite to engage.
"Very simply, SharkBite fittings work by pushing teeth onto pipes that then seal a rubber gasket around the connection. This creates a water-tight seal and a connection that is difficult to pull off without the use of a special tool."
 
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Old 06-02-23, 08:43 AM
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I have never had one of these full turn valves apart, do they have any replaceable parts inside them? (this is a valve installed with compression fittings on a 1/2" copper pipe. It has a removable Oval shaped handle held onto the valve stem with a phillips head screw. There is a packing nut for the stem, and another nut under that for removal of the valve guts I think. If I can get it clean enough to open back up, I could still use it for awhile.
 
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Old 06-17-23, 07:21 PM
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Being more determined than bright, I googled around until I found a tutorial from This Old House about repairing these full turn valves. Home Depot sells a replacement cylinder with a washer for about 3 bucks that is made for these valves. Considering the the really bad one turned in to shut off, just wouldnt come back out, I may be running for a whole new valve or maybe not!
 
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Old 06-22-23, 06:23 PM
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The 3 dollar valve rebuild kit is opening up and closing off the house pressure. I have a very small leak coming from the cap that screws on to seal the valve inner shaft to the valve body. One thin wrap of teflon tape slowed it down. Going to try one or two more wraps of that or go to some silicone RTV
 
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Old 06-23-23, 08:18 PM
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The Vanity that this valve is controlling the hot water to has a STERLING brand hot and cold water set of faucets on it. One of them has a faucet stem that is leaking out of the side, letting water run into the sink from a place it is not supposed to. I did a search for Sterling repair parts, and DANCO makes will fit parts for them, but a Google search came up with the news that Sterling is owned by Kohler. I cannot see from the Kohler site how I might be able to buy OEM parts for my STERLING units that are all over this house. Any clues our there?
 
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Old 06-24-23, 04:04 AM
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Why are you still fooling with this? Get a SharkBite and be done with it.
 
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Old 06-24-23, 08:16 AM
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Norm, if I do one new valve here, I have to do two, and the other one is fine. Too many times I have been just one more wrap or tweek away from success on something like this. I was trained by people who suffered thru the Great Depression of the 1930's. Its in the DNA. AND it is a challenge lol
 
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Old 06-24-23, 08:36 AM
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I also grew up post depression by parents who would try to fix as opposed to buy new. But there comes a point that certain things just aren't worth the effort. You don't need to buy two SharkBites. Just buy the one that needs replacement.
 
 

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