Installing 1/4" underlayment for Vinyl flooring

Reply

  #1  
Old 02-13-16, 01:48 PM
C
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 105
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Installing 1/4" underlayment for Vinyl flooring

Hey all. I bought some 'Tarkett' brand vinyl flooring 6 mos. ago to use in my kitchen. New construction. I have 3/4" durastrand subfloor and am installing 1/4" underlayment before the vinyl. I have used nails and screws in the past but read online elsewhere that pros use narrow crown staples. Sounded ablot easier. I have installed one sheet so far and it was a lot quicker than my past jobs. Is there something I need to be careful about or aware of? I staple cross grain assuming that will hold more material strands down with the staple. I have not decided how to staple the very edge. 1/2" in? 1" in... Or factory x's which are 2" from the perimeter of my 4x8 sheets? Should be safe to have the pieces tight together I assume, too?
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 02-13-16, 02:36 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,965
Received 6 Votes on 6 Posts
What type underlayment? You should only need 1/4" plywood underlayment (not luan). I fear you may be installing hardie underlayment. Is that correct? Or is your plywood marked for fasteners? Factory x's would be sufficient. The field joints should be firmly together to prevent gaps where the flooring will create cracks.
 
  #3  
Old 02-13-16, 03:16 PM
C
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 105
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Chandler, I am installing smooth 1/4" plywood underlayment rated for the vinyl flooring. I really like this staple method so far. I tried pulling some up as a test and this would be a nightmare to pull off. Which is good and bad. Some day in the future after the vinyl wears out or gets old I would want to tile the kitchen but also not have a big height difference between the living room and kitchen. I'm hoping the answer is I could use thinner cement board for the ceramic tile and leave this 1/4" ply down (since the vinyl is glue-less install). -- I know, that's really thinking ahead.
 
  #4  
Old 02-13-16, 03:38 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,965
Received 6 Votes on 6 Posts
OK, good. Yeah the narrow crown stapler makes easy work of it and it won't come up easily. Sadly all dreams come to an end. You won't be able to leave the plywood and tile down in order to install ceramic. Good thing is you can pull the plywood up all together, not easily, but doable. The plywood won't give the support you need for the tile. Use 1/4" backer for the tile, bedding it in thinset before fastening to the subfloor.
 
  #5  
Old 02-13-16, 04:18 PM
C
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 3,138
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Is this sheet vinyl? Make sure the seams in the underlayment are flat and smooth or they will telegraph through over time. If you can catch your fingernail on it, it will telegraph. I generally swipe floor patch on the seams and over the staples and then give it a quick sand when dry with a pole sander like you use for drywall.

Probably overkill, but that's how I learned to do it from my buddy, who has been doing it for a living for ages.
 
  #6  
Old 02-13-16, 09:49 PM
C
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 105
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
chandler, so with the 11 7/8" I Joists, 3/4" T&G Subfloor, and 1/4" Ply Underlayment I wouldn't be able to use a thin (1/4" or 5/16") concrete backer board for tile (likely ceramic as it's affordable)? I had to pull up some of this underlayment to square it up and discovered the staple holds to a point then the plywood of course separates, and it's like a blowout with the staple sticking perfectly fine into the subfloor. I can see myself using a nailbar and hammer to pull the underlayment but then having to cut each staple and hammer down the prickly part because they simply don't pull out --- or hammering the staples to embed them into the subfloor resulting in 1/4" of the staple penetrating out the bottom of the subfloor.

I may never get to that stage, but it's one I'd like to have a plan a or plan b for.

CarbideTipped -- Yes! It's sheet vinyl and I have been very anal about my smooth surface. I belt sanded all subfloor joints, puttied all blisters or indents in subfloor (it got rained on of course before the roof was on). I have not seen any noticeable height differences at my underlayment seams which is good, and I have kept gaps to 1/16th to 1/8th of an inch besides my last pieces where my cuts were not square. I am prepared to use the DAP floor leveling mix on all underlayment joints and staple hole blemishes or hammer marks (very few). My only concern with the staples at this point is possibility of floor squeaking down the road, and any joints on the unsquare cuts that are more like 1/4" of an inch

My staple pattern is now about every 8 inches, zig-zagged. I did every x on the first sheet, which was 288 staples. I counted 'em. Now it's ~150 a sheet.
 
  #7  
Old 02-14-16, 07:11 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,017
Received 675 Votes on 624 Posts
Scrimping on the staples isn't a good idea... although it doesn't sound like you're that far off. APA recommends 3" on center on edges and 6" in the field. Not going to do the math, but offhand I think that's around 200 for a 4x8 sheet.
 
  #8  
Old 02-14-16, 08:59 AM
C
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 105
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I figured staples every 3" or even 4" on the edge would make the ply weak and likely to split? If not, I'll gladly staple a tighter pattern and worry about the excess staples when its demo time.
 
  #9  
Old 02-14-16, 10:17 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,017
Received 675 Votes on 624 Posts
APA is the Engineered Wood Association, all plywood carries their stamp... so I would think they would know what they're talking about.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...d9i1cdV-X1dooQ
 
  #10  
Old 02-14-16, 03:26 PM
sam floor's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: May 2010
Location: floor installer
Posts: 966
Received 15 Votes on 11 Posts
If you are not gluing the vinyl, you don't have to be perfect with the staples. If you miss a staple when you are gluing down the vinyl, the adhesive will draw the underlayment up and make it bubble. With no adhesive, no worry about that.
 
  #11  
Old 02-14-16, 08:47 PM
C
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 105
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Since this is called the glueless kind I think that will be okay then. I filled all the seams today with the DAP product, but now I have to sand all the lines made from my putty knife. I am guessing my belt sander with fine grit paper would still be too harsh. The floor filler made the parts of underlayment that are higher than the neighbor much more noticeable now. So I am not sure if I should try to sand the underlayment itself and then have the seams be 100% on the same plane or just hand sand the floor leveler to knock down any line marks and call it good? Is it best to sand the ply underlayment itself and only have the filler in the 1/8" to 1/16" seam gap, or have it filling in the low spots to make it less of a difference w/o sanding the plywood of underlayment? I am talking maybe 1/16th or 32nd of height difference between underlayment sheets, but the white filler makes it visible.
 
  #12  
Old 02-15-16, 06:37 AM
C
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 3,138
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Similar in principle to drywall seams, where you want to spread changes in height over at least a few inches so they are less obvious. So usually you will end up with a few inch wide strip of compound that tapers in thickness from nothing up to the top of the higher section. It's ok to sand the underlayment a little, but you don't want to remove as much as a 1/16. The patch is easy to sand, but it's easier if you put it on as thin as possible.
 
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: