Persistent ceiling drywall crack
#1
Persistent ceiling drywall crack
Want to run this by the crew.
I have a client that removed a wall between two rooms. They had an engineered LVL installed in the attic crawl so that the finished ceiling in the room below was flush across. They have had a constant crack at the drywall seam that they have already repaired twice since new and I think I know why it keeps re-appearing. The ceiling joist run in opposite directions on either side of the LVL. Those perpendicular are attached to the LVL with joist hangers. Rather than breaking the drywall to split on the double LVL, they made the drywall seam at the edge if the LVL and under the joist hangers. See sketch - I think if they cut back the drywall and split the seam on the LVL and moved the patch seam 2 feet into the perpendicular joists that will eliminate the constant crack. Thoughts? Roof is stick build ranch style so no trusses involved.
I have a client that removed a wall between two rooms. They had an engineered LVL installed in the attic crawl so that the finished ceiling in the room below was flush across. They have had a constant crack at the drywall seam that they have already repaired twice since new and I think I know why it keeps re-appearing. The ceiling joist run in opposite directions on either side of the LVL. Those perpendicular are attached to the LVL with joist hangers. Rather than breaking the drywall to split on the double LVL, they made the drywall seam at the edge if the LVL and under the joist hangers. See sketch - I think if they cut back the drywall and split the seam on the LVL and moved the patch seam 2 feet into the perpendicular joists that will eliminate the constant crack. Thoughts? Roof is stick build ranch style so no trusses involved.
#3
I told them it would be a waste of money to try to fix it as configured and that it would continue to crack out. It was exceptionally hot this summer here and the attic temperature range would have been massive.
So we are on the same page, here is where I propose the new patch and seams to be located. One side split the LVL and the other 24" over into the perpendicular joists.
So we are on the same page, here is where I propose the new patch and seams to be located. One side split the LVL and the other 24" over into the perpendicular joists.
#4
Group Moderator
With attachments on both side of the seam to the same joists, I think the problem will be resolved.
Is there blown-in insulation above this?
Is there blown-in insulation above this?
#5
Member
Can you also add backer boards at the new seam you are creating. You don't wan to end up with a new problem.
My concern would still be, why is the existing one cracking? Are the joists pulling away from the LVL? Putting the seam in the middle of the LVL is better, but will an inch of drywall stop the movement?
Also, any activity going on above that ceiling, like storage?
Bud
My concern would still be, why is the existing one cracking? Are the joists pulling away from the LVL? Putting the seam in the middle of the LVL is better, but will an inch of drywall stop the movement?
Also, any activity going on above that ceiling, like storage?
Bud
#6
Is there blown-in insulation above this?
Are the joists pulling away from the LVL?
any activity going on above that ceiling, like storage?
#7
Member
No side nails, that sounds like a smoking gun. At least it is a positive step towards resoling the issue. I never like it when they change the direction of the ceiling or floor joists like that. But I have also never seen joist hangers NOT nailed to the sides. Did they just hammer in the side tabs?
Side note, there was some positive conversation a while ago here about palm nailers, so I bought my son one for his BD. He loves it. Said, when you get into a tight spot they are heaven. Installing those side nails without shaking the existing drywall loose could be a good application. Or at least a good excuse for a new tool.
Bud
Side note, there was some positive conversation a while ago here about palm nailers, so I bought my son one for his BD. He loves it. Said, when you get into a tight spot they are heaven. Installing those side nails without shaking the existing drywall loose could be a good application. Or at least a good excuse for a new tool.
Bud
#8
No side nails, that sounds like a smoking gun. At least it is a positive step towards resoling the issue. I never like it when they change the direction of the ceiling or floor joists like that. But I have also never seen joist hangers NOT nailed to the sides. Did they just hammer in the side tabs?
Of note on the hangers, there is also a lack of collar ties in that area so the roof may assisting in the movement although there is an addition off the extreme right side of this room that would tend to add structure to the ceiling joist. But they may be sliding in the hangers. Would those toe nails really give that much structural support? Another observation, they did not appear to use proper hanger nails as they look like regular framing nail heads instead of Simpson galvanized heads.
I'm going to take another look up there.
#9
Member
I've always considered those toe nails as just a third hand, to hold them in place while I get the hammer and nails. As for regular nails, those stubby galvanized ones we are supposed to use are much better but I see regular nails all the time. But those hammer-in tabs aren't going to hold well.
If they didn't fill all of the holes into the LVL, I would use some proper hails. One thing about galvanized nails, they stay put. Regular nails pull out much easier.
Bud
If they didn't fill all of the holes into the LVL, I would use some proper hails. One thing about galvanized nails, they stay put. Regular nails pull out much easier.
Bud
#10
Would those toe nails really give that much structural support?
To try to avoid stress cracks, I would place the drywall seams as far away from the beam as possible.
I would run a 10' sheet parallel and centered with the beam.
#11
Member
Brian, I think I used the wrong term. I was referring to those bent tabs that can be hammered in to secure the bracket temporarily, but re-reading he was asking about the missing toe nails. He posted that there are no nails through the joist hanger into the joists and I think that is a major contributor to the movement.
Bud
Bud
#12
Here is the general pic that corresponds to my sketch
Here is the offending joist hanger - note there are no toenail's just straight nails
So I am leaning toward the moving joist as the cause. These hangers would definately lock the whole mess down.
verified that no joist nails were used across all ceiling joists.
Here is the offending joist hanger - note there are no toenail's just straight nails
So I am leaning toward the moving joist as the cause. These hangers would definately lock the whole mess down.
verified that no joist nails were used across all ceiling joists.
#13
I think we are all on the same page Bud, the tabs are an aid only. The palm nailer is a great idea also
Basically you want to fill every nail hole with the proper fastener.
Do a search for Simpson Pocket Guide. The Pocket Guide makes it easy to choose fasteners for whatever type of bracket you are using.
Basically you want to fill every nail hole with the proper fastener.
Do a search for Simpson Pocket Guide. The Pocket Guide makes it easy to choose fasteners for whatever type of bracket you are using.
#14
Those hangers are not designed for toenailing... only straight nails. I agree the drywall should not break anywhere near the lvl, it should span across it. Blocking would need to be added to the side where the joists are parallel, and don't even screw the drywall to the lvl... the sheet rock should span across it, and screw on either side of it... maybe 6" to either side.
#15
and don't even screw the drywall to the lvl... the sheet rock should span across it, and screw on either side of it... maybe 6" to either side.
#16
At least 12" I would imagine. Drywall should span areas like that which are prone to movement. The header kind of acts like a pivot point when there is movement.