Installation of a second water heater

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Old 11-16-16, 05:02 AM
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Question Installation of a second water heater

I want to install a 6-gallon water heater underneath my mobile home's kitchen sink. It takes FOREVER for the water to get hot there, because our 40-gallon is piped in from the opposite end of the mobile home, in the master bedroom's closet. Nice engineering, huh?

I have a 200 amp main panel, and it looks like the 40-gallon is wired to (2)single pole 20 amp breakers. Could this be correct? I know the water heater is 110 volt, but it seems that that limitation of the breakers would be too low. Anyway, there is no more room in the panel for any additional breakers. Is it possible to get that 6-gallon mounted under the kitchen sink? If so, how would it be piped AND wired in? I know that code here is that you must have at least 12 inches of 3/4" copper, before you can switch over to 3/4" pex, and the entire run of pipe must be 3/4". By the way, I have no expansion tank. Shouldn't there be one at the 40-gallon? How would I pipe it in? I know all of the pipe has to be 3/4" copper. Thanks for any help. .
 

Last edited by kleinscmidt; 11-16-16 at 05:28 AM.
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Old 11-16-16, 05:54 AM
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it looks like the 40-gallon is wired to (2)single pole 20 amp breakers. Could this be correct? I know the water heater is 110 volt, but it seems that that limitation of the breakers would be too low.
Nominal voltages are 120v and 240v, not 110v. A 40 gallon water heater would normally be on a 2-pole 30 amp 240v breaker. Check the name plate on the water heater.
there is no more room in the panel for any additional breakers.
Give us the make and model number of the panel. You may be able to use tandems.
Is it possible to get that 6-gallon mounted under the kitchen sink?
If you have the room.
I know that code here is that you must have at least 12 inches of 3/4" copper, before you can switch over to 3/4" pex, and the entire run of pipe must be 3/4".
Assuming it will fit under the sink I'd disconnect the hot water supply line from the faucet and run a steel braided supply line from the sink hot water supply line valve to the cold side of the water heater. I'd connect the hot water side of the faucet to the hot output side of the water heater. I'd use no pipes, just stainless steel braided flex supply lines. You're not running pipes just hooking something up so I doubt the copper pipe rule applies but check with your AHJ.
and the entire run of pipe must be 3/4"
Unless you place it under the sink you will still get some cold water. Every place I'have lived in used " pipe. The hot was was reduced at the water heater. In this case 3/8" supply lines such as normally used for faucets should be enough if under the sink. Not a plumber so the plumbers and your AHJ may have a different opinions.
 
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Old 11-16-16, 06:16 AM
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If all this is for is the sink why not a simple point of use heater, it would take up far less room and simple to hook up.
No way do you need 6 gal. of water to just do dishes.
 
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Old 11-17-16, 07:55 PM
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Hello there Ray, sorry about the delay in my reply. I thought I was supposed to be e-mailed when someone replied to my thread, but I'll have to check on that again.

The existing water heater is a 30, NOT a 40 gallon...my mistake. It is a Whirlpool, Model #ME30H6 S45 100. It is a 240VAC, single phase, and has the Item / Part #100262015. There have been several previous tenants that have lived here, SO...according to the main panel's labeling, (which, BTW, is a Siemens, Model #M122MB1200F. Just below that model #, there is an IDENTICAL model #, the only difference being an S at the end, instead of the F) The 30 gallon is on a 20 amp tandem, OR (2) 20 amp thins, joined together by a metal clip...AND on #12 wire! I would think that at the least, I would need to re-run the wire, changing it over to #10 gauge. Would you agree?

I'm sorry that I didn't make myself clear on this, but referring to the 6 gallon (that IS a point-of-use W/H) going "under the sink", I meant under the home itself, in the crawl space, piping more or less straight up TO THE FAUCET. That said, then judging the distance the pipes need to run, I'm certain that, after my 12" of 3/4"copper, that I could switch over to 1/2" pex, to adapters for the 3/8" faucet supply lines.

I can tell you that I checked the breakers with a meter, and the labeling on the panel door is correct, i.e., Dryer;Water Heater / Water Heater;Dryer. The Water heater, as I said, is on a 20 amp tandem, and the 2 Dryer breakers are 30 amp, and are, as stated, separated by the water heater tandem. I have managed to attach pictures, and perhaps they will give you a better idea of my "panel dilemma", having no blank spaces for additional breakers. In the first photo, you can barely see a dingy piece of what appears to be paper tape. THAT is on the water heater breaker(s), and the dryer breakers on either side of them. The black and red #10 wires are to the 240VAC for the dryer, and the #12 white and black between them are the water heater circuit. The bottom photo, of course, is the entire panel make-up, and using your zoom function, you can spot whatever you need to, I would hope. Perhaps you could spot a solution??

At the very bottom, on the left side, there is a 40 amp breaker for the kitchen range, and on the right, there are two sets of 2-pole breakers at the bottom;a 40 amp, and a 2-pole 60 amp, both are NOT thins, and both, ( on the labeled door portion of the panel ) say " furnace". Actually, on the panel labeling, the last FIVE labels say "furnace", but I haven't a clue why that is.

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The A/C and well pump are on a separate panel outside. I apologize for the "novel" as a reply. I just decided to try and cover everything in the post. I am grateful for your input, and for any assistance and advice you might have.

~~Tom
 

Last edited by kleinscmidt; 11-17-16 at 08:44 PM. Reason: More detailed description(s)
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Old 11-17-16, 08:08 PM
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I checked your setting and you should have been notified by email. Check your spam basket for the notification. The notification can be confused with spam. You can tell your email provider it's not trash.
 
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Old 11-17-16, 08:43 PM
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IT IS a point of use water heater, joe, and I should have clarified that it is going in the crawl space, NOT directly under the sink. BTW, we have a dishwasher, and the hot is used mainly to keep the kitchen clean and sanitary, along with our hands, as well.

Maybe you could share some input as to how AND where to hook up the 120V for the 6 gallon. I THINK I have a 120 space available in the outside 100 amp panel to use, but it being at the opposite end of the home, it will need to either be underground, or use an existing conduit w/ a romex run already in it for the dishwasher...= fish tape + wire snot. Thanks for any help and / or advice you can supply.

~~Tom
 
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