Do drainfields usually fail instantly without warning?


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Old 06-06-17, 02:58 AM
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Do drainfields usually fail instantly without warning?

Last week I had an immediate backup of all sewer with no warning. I'm the only one in the house and I know that no foreign objects were introduced to the system (by any humans, at least). Nothing looks amiss in the yard, but I don't know where the drainfield is located. It's ~6 acres, but I've noticed nothing wrong anywhere.

I put hot water in the bathtub and it backed up into my toilet and destroyed my wax ring. Big whoops. Big mess, too.

There's a cleanout where the PVC leads to the septic tank. I slowly loosened it and drained about 5 gals of clean-looking water from it. Then I inserted my flimsy sewer snake, but that was about worthless as all it would do is coil upon itself after a few feet.

I plan on having the septic tank pumped, if for no other reason than troubleshooting. If everything in the house starts magically working after that, then I know I'm $screwed.

Is this how things usually fail? It seems suspect to me for a few reasons:
  1. Why no warning? (Slow drains, etc)
  2. Why only 5 gallons from the cleanout, and why so clear? If I was draining from an overful septic tank, wouldn't it be.... "dirty"? Wouldn't there be more?
  3. Why 100% blockage? I'd understand slow, but it really is completely stopped up.

I guess I'm just looking for input. If it was an organic-type clog, one, I'm surprised it's that deep in the system rather than the toilet. Two, I would have expected it to clear itself after this many days.

It's not making sense to me.
 
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Old 06-06-17, 03:05 AM
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A failing drain field gives plenty of warning but it often goes unnoticed. How old is the septic system? when was the tank pumped last? Do you have standing water in the yard?
 
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Old 06-06-17, 03:38 AM
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marksr- I am unsure when the tank was pumped last, as I bought it as a foreclosure and was unable to speak to the previous owner. I have been here for about 4 years. The house is about 110 years old, but obviously the systems are not that old.

As I stated, there is nothing odd-looking in the yard at all. Actually I've been looking for that "greener grass" the whole time I've been here, and seen nothing. We've got a roadside ditch though; I guess the drainfield could be on the ditch hillside? Still, no standing water anywhere, no odors, no abnormal growth, no nothing.

Edit: Is it possible that I have a cesstank (or whatever you call it) with no outlet whatsoever? And it lasted 4 years without being pumped??

I guess I'll find that out when the pump guy comes. Problem is, I've got a huge tree down in my yard and it's going to be a while before I can chop things up enough for a truck to get in there. Not fun.
 
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Old 06-06-17, 03:54 AM
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I don't know how much hose they typically carry on the truck but they don't have to drive up to the tank. You might discuss with them how close they can get with the downed tree and see if that would be an issue or not.
 
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Old 06-06-17, 03:58 AM
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Most pump trucks pump from street, Have long hose to reach.
 
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Old 06-06-17, 04:11 AM
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Before making an appointment for the pump-out, I would expose the inlet and outlet of the septic tank and have someone watch it while a toilet is flushed (or a significant amount of water is put into the waste disposal system), and ascertain whether it is making it to the tank . . . . and if a similar amount of effluent is leaving the tank immediately thereafter. It may be that the leach field is clogged ?

Is the downed tree anywhere close to where the leach field may be located . . . . might it have something to do with the leach field no longer absorbing the effluent ?

Finding the septic tank ports is a form of detective work that pumping companies around here charge extra for, so anything you can do to locate your system in advance will be helpful. I have found that these service people come in all varieties . . . . some carry a lot of technical information in their skulls; while others don't do too much thinking about what they're dealing with on a daily basis, they just pump (and talk a lot).

The idea that you drained 5 gallons of clear water from a drain pipe which should have been near to empty implies that your tank is not draining as it should . . . . the blockage is probably at the outlet or in the leach field.

If you didn't get a schematic of your system and its location at your Closing, then I'd check with your municipality and see if they keep such records, and see if you can obtain a copy before spending any money. Most systems installed within the past few decades have a written record housed somewhere.
 
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Old 06-06-17, 04:34 AM
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As Vermont said, exposing the inlet and outlet ports of your septic tank will tell the story. Good luck,
Steve
 
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Old 06-06-17, 04:35 AM
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Vermont-

I'd love to expose the inlet and outlet of the septic tank and watch the flows, and in fact that's why I'll be having it pumped. Because as far as I know there is no cover to open for inlets and outlets? I've got a concrete tank, at least one iron cover (that I paid a location service to find for me years back), but that's it. I think I'd be lucky to find a D-box with a cover accessible. How does one watch the inflows without pumping the tank?

Interesting thought about the downed tree. I had not considered that. The tree is VERY large and weighs several thousand pounds, so I'm sure it could have destroyed anything under it. However the tree has been down for 3-4months. If the drainfield stuff got crushed during that storm months ago, would I have been fine all this time until now?

See the timing of this all just doesn't make sense.

There is one thing I did not mention: I had 4 inches of water in my basement a week or two before this happened... _presumably_ because of a blocked downspout which has now been rectified. There wasn't _that_ much rain that week -- we've had much worse. (It was NOT a heavy rain by any means.) I pumped the water out of the basement and have not seen any since. Unless the septic system installers put the drainfield right up against the house under the gutters, I don't think that would be related? And still, why 100% blockage, even if it WAS related to rain from weeks ago?

But yes, I am looking forward to seeing the inflow or lack thereof. If you guys are confident I'll find some other covers for this, I'll start digging instead of paying $ for a pump just to see the flows. Because seeing the flow was all I wanted anyway.
 
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Old 06-06-17, 04:43 AM
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Both rain and effluent can saturate the ground and it can take awhile for the ground to recover [dry out] Drain fields are not allowed within so many feet of a structure.

My son has a place in a low lying area and all the recent rains have slowed his system down but it still works for the most part. His tank is in dire need of pumping [scheduled for tomorrow] but I don't expect that to do a lot for his wet drain field.
 
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Old 06-06-17, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by core
". . . How does one watch the inflows without pumping the tank? . . ."
The tank level will usually be about 85% full, and the inlet and outlet are staggered (one is higher than the other), so that the inlet is a few inches above the effluent level (or scum layer), while the bottom lip of the outlet should be exactly at that level . . . . so that nothing more will exit until something is added.

When the tank is pumped, they usually remove only the sludge layer (from the bottom) and leave the middle (effluent layer) and the top floating debris (scum layer) unless you direct them to empty the tank completely. Emptying the tank completely can be a little risky because floating debris may circumvent the baffle and exit the tank prematurely and go out to clog the leach field (unless you're equipped with a outlet filter).

At least that's the way pumping services operate around here.

PS: Concrete Tanks usually have three(3) ports built right nto the lid: the central pumping post (largest); and observation port over the inlet (medium), and an observation port over the exit (smallest), which should also allow inspection of the baffle.
 

Last edited by Vermont; 06-06-17 at 05:00 AM. Reason: Added PostScript
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Old 06-06-17, 05:08 AM
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Emptying the tank completely can be a little risky because floating debris may circumvent the baffle and exit the tank prematurely and go out to clog the leach field
Ah hah! See, this is what I've been wondering about for YEARS and never asked anyone. THANKS!!! I always wondered if they filled it back up with water or how in the world they got around that problem. That answers that.

Back to the topic though: So rather than unearthing a separate deal, you're saying I should just pull the one cover I have and work from there. With the tank nearly full I won't be able to see the bottom of the baffles. And the PVC pipes will be hidden by the baffles, so I really won't know what level things are really at. I'm sure to you pros you can just look at it and tell, but I'm just looking at a wall of concrete guessing where the outlet is behind that concrete. (I'm assuming outlet is also baffled... if it's not, your comments make perfect sense as far as visually inspecting goes. Otherwise how do I know where the outlet level really is?)

You know what though, I forgot I own a cheap borescope camera with 15' of cable which should be enough. I'm tempted to duct tape that onto my snake and stick that in there. If I get as far as a dry baffle I guess I have my answer.

I probably won't be able to do the camera run for another couple days, but if I post it on youtube or somewhere, would any of you be willing to give it a look? Thanks!
 
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Old 06-06-17, 05:41 AM
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Not a pleasant job but you could take a stick and move it around in the tank. That would give you an idea of how thick the scum layer is and how deep the sludge is.

When I had my tank pumped they removed everything [effluent also] and then took my garden hose and rinsed out the tank - pumping out that water also. I don't really understand how they could just remove the sludge and leave the water .... but then there is a lot I don't know about septic tank pumping
 
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Old 06-06-17, 06:18 AM
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If all these months since the tree fell you only put down small amounts of water an any given time period and just now you let an entire bathtubfull drain out then you could see a sudden backup.

Both the top layer (scum/froth/grease) and the bottom layer (sludge/solids) must be pumped out of the septic tank. It is better to also pump out the middle (mostly water) since leaving that behind will also leave stirred up remains of the other two layers.

Some companies prefer not to remove the middle layer or might even pump out everything and put back what supposedly was in the middle with the same disadvantageous results of stirred up remains of the other two layers.

No harm is done leaving the septic tank empty allowing it to nearly refill, back to normal level, over time.
 
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Old 06-06-17, 07:34 AM
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Concrete Tanks usually have three(3) ports built right nto the lid: the central pumping post (largest); and observation port over the inlet (medium), and an observation port over the exit (smallest)
I may just have to do a bit of digging then, because now I'm curious to see what I've got. I need to dig out the pumping port better anyway, for the guy if/when I call. How likely is it that a concrete tank will collapse whilst someone is standing above digging away? That would really ruin somebody's day, I would think.

Unfortunately the guys who did the underground locate ~3 years ago didn't check for such things for me. They offered to pump my tank, but said I'd need to arrange with a neighbor to have the effluent blasted all over the neighbor's cornfield. When I thought of that ending up in my cornflakes, I declined.

If all these months since the tree fell you only put down small amounts of water an any given time period and just now you let an entire bathtubfull drain out then you could see a sudden backup
It's hard to remember what the water usage was before/during the event. No bathtubfuls, but always 20+ minute showers since the water is "free". No kitchen gunk goes in there because the kitchen sink drains into the crawl space (don't ask me; I didn't do it). Washing machine usage would be the only highly variable thing.
 
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Old 06-06-17, 08:01 AM
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A lot of the older tanks just have 2 ports built into the lid - on opposing ends of the tank. My son's tank just has one removable portion at one side of his tank. Generally there isn't any danger with standing on top of the tank, they are fairly stout but you are right - if it broke and you fell in, it would ruin your day
 
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Old 06-06-17, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by core
". . . I may just have to do a bit of digging then, because now I'm curious to see what I've got. I need to dig out the pumping port better anyway, for the guy if/when I call . . ."
When you do that, you may line your tank's characteristics up with one of those in the following link, and visualize what it's internal construction is likely to be when you see it emptied:

https://www.google.com/search?q=sept...w=1600&bih=770

You'll notice that most of these other tanks are portrayed being full at the 85 or 90% level.

Originally Posted by core
". . . How likely is it that a concrete tank will collapse whilst someone is standing above digging away? That would really ruin somebody's day, I would think . . ."
Unlikely because the concrete tanks are formed (usually) over a framework of reinforced rebar (steel reinforcement rods and steel netting) so they're much more durable than Steel Sheet Metal Tanks.

As a Real Estate Broker, I once took a listing where the Owner had a conical depression in the back yard . . . . and I asked him if that was where his septic tank was located ?

He says "Maybe; I don't know for sure . . . . somewhere out there !"

In showing the place, I cautioned people against walking in that area; but before long, I heard that the Owner had walked into that dip while mowing and the rusted steel lid gave way and his foot and leg entered the septic tank, in kind of a one-way reverse Vietnamese Tiger Trap; so that we was incapable of withdrawing his foot without lacerating it severely with the filthy rusted metal, so he had to call for the EMTs to extricate him with some version of the "Jaws of Life".

I'm glad it happened on his watch; and without me having to bear any liability . . . . nonetheless, it's a worthy concern, and it'll be good for you to know the structural make-up of your own tank.
 

Last edited by Vermont; 06-06-17 at 03:43 PM. Reason: reconciled singulars and plurals
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Old 06-26-17, 01:13 AM
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Just wanted to post an update with the outcome.

It turns out the problem was that tree roots had grown in from (somewhere) to my input baffle and clogged up the input. The PVC from the house to that baffle looks fine visually, so I'm _hoping_ the roots came in through the cover since I've already sliced those and the roots should eventually go away. (I'm not really willing to go down into that tank at this point to chop roots out of there.)

I snaked out that baffle from the cellar cleanout enough that my shower now works. But since the tank has just been pumped, I think I'll just continue not using the shower until the tank is full from eventual toilet use. That is, once I replace the wax ring on my toilet that got destroyed from hot water. My leach field (if I even have one) has already had 3.5 weeks of rest time, so I figure I'll take advantage of that since another few months of rest can only help me long-term. Come November though, it will be too cold to shower outside anymore!

By the way, all the talk of 2 chambers and inspection ports was not valid in this case. It's just a single rectangular concrete tank with a single round 30" solid concrete cover with a steel ring around the outside of the cover. No inspection ports, unless you count the drill hole the previous owner left in the output pipe for my shovel to find. Baffles are PVC tees; probably put there at a later date.

I'm just glad that my drain field is OK, and the tank is "pretty much OK".

Thanks for the help everyone.
 
 

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